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2013-07-24: Put Someone's Eye Out
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting point Felgraf. I guess you could also look at the intent of the bots. Fembot was not a threat to the guy who bought her, but I'm pretty sure the Sisterhood feel threatened by the spybots. With good reason, as spybots are made to snoop and pry, whereas fembots just aim to please.
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Miss Magenta



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets not forget that drones can also shoot lasers, and have legitimately tried to kill Xanthe in the past. At that point they would have become a legitimate threat to the safety of anyone who isn't compliant with their wishes, especially the rest of the sisterhood.
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tricksterson



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it hinges on how you define sentience. Fembots (I'm excluding Maverick here) and drones (again excluding the enlighhtened ones and probably Butt-bot) seem to be self aware but do they have free will? And if they don't are they sentient anyway? Then again, Miss Magenta has a point, they have attacked Xanthe and the Sisterhood and the Devil are clearly at war, declared or not (does anyone actually declare wars any more?)
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tricksterson



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it hinges on how you define sentience. Fembots (I'm excluding Maverick here) and drones (again excluding the enlighhtened ones and probably Butt-bot) seem to be self aware but do they have free will? And if they don't are they sentient anyway? Then again, Miss Magenta has a point, they have attacked Xanthe and the Sisterhood and the Devil are clearly at war, declared or not (does anyone actually declare wars any more?) More concerned with Maverick's possible killing of Mr. Asshole.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tricksterson wrote:
I think it hinges on how you define sentience.


that one's easy. sentience is the capacity to have sensations. goldfish are sentient; that doesn't make 'em comparable to the fembots or the drones, so far as we've seen.

what y'all are really looking for is intelligence, the capacity to reason and such.
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Cley Faye



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
tricksterson wrote:
I think it hinges on how you define sentience.


that one's easy. sentience is the capacity to have sensations. goldfish are sentient; that doesn't make 'em comparable to the fembots or the drones, so far as we've seen.

what y'all are really looking for is intelligence, the capacity to reason and such.


It's even easier than that. Isn't "free will" the most important point here ?
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ShadowCell



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have never met anyone who thought "free will" was easy
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Geareye



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a discussion to define "free will" would lead to even bigger problems than trying to decide if the vital point of interest is "sentinence" or "intelligence"...
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "free will" discussion is very long, and very useless. Both sides often base their arguments in loads of crap that we don't know much of anything about. If you're discussing it with reasonable people (people who don't have some bullheaded commitment to the unknowns that the arguments are based upon) it quickly gets to a point where the best you can say is something that starts with, "Well, it seems like..." or something similarly non-committal or based in feeling and the discussion either peters out at that point or the parties involved start throwing out wild hypotheticals for fun.

It becomes less muddled, of course, if you see a guy with a remote control making the drones do things.

Whether you think it's sentience or sapience or both or neither that matter for whether you kill things is one key indicator of whether you're a vegetarian or not.
That's less important when those things are drones that were built by your enemies to spy on you and have also posed a more tangible threat in the past.
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Leohan



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
The "free will" discussion is very long, and very useless. Both sides often base their arguments in loads of crap that we don't know much of anything about. If you're discussing it with reasonable people (people who don't have some bullheaded commitment to the unknowns that the arguments are based upon) it quickly gets to a point where the best you can say is something that starts with, "Well, it seems like..." or something similarly non-committal or based in feeling and the discussion either peters out at that point or the parties involved start throwing out wild hypotheticals for fun.

It becomes less muddled, of course, if you see a guy with a remote control making the drones do things.

Whether you think it's sentience or sapience or both or neither that matter for whether you kill things is one key indicator of whether you're a vegetarian or not.
That's less important when those things are drones that were built by your enemies to spy on you and have also posed a more tangible threat in the past.

Completely agreed. Not like I don't have my opinions, really, but there's an infinity of different interpretations. The discussion would have at least four sides and it'd really be a mess.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only one who doesn't care about free will? I mean, its an interesting question, bt I personally don't feel bothered either way - since whichever it s, my life experience is just the same.
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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
Lets not forget that drones can also shoot lasers, and have legitimately tried to kill Xanthe in the past. At that point they would have become a legitimate threat to the safety of anyone who isn't compliant with their wishes, especially the rest of the sisterhood.



... I think I honestly forgot the things had weapons. Wow. I'm not sure how I managed that. HERP DERP.
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Leohan



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Am I the only one who doesn't care about free will? I mean, its an interesting question, bt I personally don't feel bothered either way - since whichever it s, my life experience is just the same.

It's really one of the big, useless philosophical questions that don't have any reason to be asked but that people want answered. I think it's related to the idea of the existence of a soul. What differentiates a human with a duck? I guess that it also has to do with basic human egocentrism. (I know I'm better. But why, exactly?)

Of course, it does concern people like anthropologists and neurosurgeons a lot, since it allows a broader understanding of human nature.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

any argument that relies on some sort of immaterial soul without first propping that up with hard facts can be immediately discounted


for me it's a question of whether it's worth calling what we have "free will" or not
we arise from processes that would be deterministic if it weren't for quantum chaos

in any case the experience of being the conglomerate of these processes gives one at bare minimum the illusion of free will
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Leohan



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, of course. It's not the same argument. Just related, since religious beliefs often see mankind as the only ones deserving heaven. In both cases, we note a difference between men and other animals and try to figure out what it is.
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