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2013-Sep-14 "I don't wanna fight"
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5li



Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5li wrote:
Wolfo, the difference between getting insulted online and having to deal with 'fighting the patriarchy' online is subtle for guys.

http://xkcd.com/385/

It's the difference between saying "You are _____ because of your actions" and "You are _____ because that is intrinsic to your nature."

Sounds unimportant, right?

It's little things like phrasing that:
- Cause bright girls to struggle less with difficult work than bright boys
- Cause women to perform worse on math tests
- Promote stereotype confirmation bias

And perhaps on the more selfish end of things, this causes people to make assumptions about me because I play video games containing these communities.[/url]


Sources:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/heidi-grant-halvorson-phd/girls-confidence_b_828418.html
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022103110002088

As for stereotype confirmation bias, that shows up enough everywhere that I don't have to elaborate.
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5li



Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 1188
Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baronskippy wrote:
Dismissing the point of view of another is negating your own point, not theirs, if you cannot defend it then it is not worth defending.


Do you have to try to be a moron, or does it just come naturally to you?
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 2443

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfo wrote:
Yeah, see, I don't even know where you're pulling where I said that "wanting people to be nice is demented."

Yinello expressed sadness over the inevitability of getting harassed when playing online games. You immediately denounced her "ideals" as "incredibly warped and demented". I don't see how it could be more clear from where I "pulled" my understanding.

Perhaps you are in some way confusing the arguments you are having against other people with the very clear and specific thing I am addressing?

Wolfo wrote:
If anything, I may have implied that expecting everyone to be nice on the internet, and not be insulted at some point by someone somewhere is an unrealistic ideal.

Yinello wasn't expecting everyone to be nice on the internet. The whole point of her comment was that she didn't expect everyone to be nice. And she said that was sad.

So. . . when you called her ideals incredibly warped and demented, you weren't actually referring to her ideals, but rather to ideals you'd just made up on the spot because you misread her to say the exact opposite of what she said?

Also. . . "unrealistic"? Really? From "incredibly warped and demented" you are backpedaling to "unrealistic"? If you're going to move the goalposts, just say you put them in the wrong place at the start, don't try to bluff that they were at this new location all along.

Wolfo wrote:
took my arguments to how they wanted them to mean,

I have discussed only one argument, and have been very clear and straightforward about doing so. You called Yinello's sadness about misogyny demented. That's what you did. If this is all based on you misunderstanding Yinello to mean the opposite of what she said, then that's all on you, not on me.

Also, lulz @ pretending I'm twisting your argument. Your first post to me had literally five strawmen inside a hundred words.

Wolfo wrote:
I should rationalize myself and prove my "merit" to someone who stepped in, took my arguments to how they wanted them to mean, and attempted to sound as condescending as humanly possible while doing so?

You misrepresented me. I said you misrepresented me. You claimed that I implied all of those strawmen you were trying to force on me. If you want that claim to have any merit, you should explain where I implied those things.

Notice that I am talking about the merit of your words, not your personal merit. This is a sixth case of you misrepresenting my comments.
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Wolfo



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
You deflect and downplay rational explanations and reasons when you are presented with them. You are not actually attempting to legitimately engage in dialogue, although you are trying to pass your posts off as such. Instead, you are trying to proselytize us to your bigoted views as if they were some sort of divinely gifted universal truth which will miraculously make us say "Hey you know what, all this feminism stuff is just exaggerated and conflated and is really a non-issue. Thank you Wolfo for enlightening us."


You have yet to post in a way that suggested you wanted dialogue either. You simply make an insult and attempt to misdirect to your own view or mention something so entirely irrelevant to the argument that it doesn't get brought up.

Quote:
BTW do you realize how many times you've said things (paraphrasing here) like "You can't tell people how to think . . . but people shouldn't think like that, they should think like this . . ."


Yes. That's how arguments work.
You tell others that there viewpoint does not match yours and then shove your view down their throats.
Some are more subtle at it. I disregard subtly in favor of being blunt and to the point.


Sojobo wrote:

Yinello expressed sadness over the inevitability of getting harassed when playing online games. You immediately denounced her "ideals" as "incredibly warped and demented". I don't see how it could be more clear from where I "pulled" my understanding.


Please.
Produce this magical quote.

Quote the exact statement where Yinello said that, and where I told Yinello it was an "incredibly warped and demented" ideal.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10559
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I have tried, but gave up. I'm mixing it up between mocking you and pointing out your own flaws and why it's not worth treating you like anything more than the idiot you are.

But keep on truckin', at least you've made it lively here Very Happy
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1053

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfo wrote:
Nuh-uh, neener-neener boo-boo, back on you!


Darq actually has a track record of being able to engage in good faith here. He has demonstrated that ability, so he's not on trial.

You, on the other hand, in your regrettably prolific offerings in your short time here, have yet to offer anything more coherent, relevant, or on-topic than could a rabid, territorial, juvenile, ADHD squirrel on crack. You seriously need to stop clutching your nuts, stop being so gosh-darn terrified of conceding that anyone else has a point, and grow up your brain. Maybe then, and ONLY then, will you have proved anything here about yourself. You have to prove that you can engage in good faith.

That's on you, and no one else. The burden of proof is yours, and so far NO ONE is impressed with your presented evidence. You can either decide that's because we're all just meanie-heads out to get you, (in which case I invite you to go back home and play with your legos or yourself, or whatever else that is not wasting your time here.) Or, you can decide that maybe the ENTIRE REST OF THE FORUM has a point, and there's something about your manner that could do with some examination and correction.

tl:dr - Shape up, or STFU and GTHO.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10559
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW this is fuckin' gold:
Wolfo wrote:
Quote:
BTW do you realize how many times you've said things (paraphrasing here) like "You can't tell people how to think . . . but people shouldn't think like that, they should think like this . . ."


Yes. That's how arguments work.
You tell others that there viewpoint does not match yours and then shove your view down their throats.
Some are more subtle at it. I disregard subtly in favor of being blunt and to the point.

You watch Fox News, don't you?
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 2443

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:44 am    Post subject: let me guess, it doesn't count because it's not verbatim? Reply with quote

Wolfo wrote:
Please.
Produce this magical quote.

Quote the exact statement where Yinello said that, and where I told Yinello it was an "incredibly warped and demented" ideal.

Wolfo wrote:
Yinello wrote:
(Sadly the same can't be said for games - you'll get it even if you don't say a word.)




Because something with a primary audience and a completely different demographic than your "special snowflake" group should still pander and befall to your incredibly warped and demented ideals.

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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17275
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfo wrote:

I'm crazy because you expect no one to insult you in an online anonymous video game?
And you're really calling me the crazy one?

You could be the most "privileged" person on the earth and you will still be given shit by idiots on the internet. It is how things work. You are not special.

Jesus. You preach equality yet you place yourself up on a pedestal. It's the definition of hypocrisy.


you know, back in the day, people used to dump the contents of their chamberpots out on the main thoroughfare. anyone who objected to being splashed with the contents was just being silly, because _everyone_ was at risk of being hit, and everyone (high and low) who walked the streets had to dodge puddles of urine.

by your logic, we would all still be using our streets as open sewers, because hey - everyone does it! and it happens to everyone!

but see, it's really not a good idea to cover the world with filth - either actual chamberpot filth, or metaphoric, potty-mouth filth. and it isn't privileged to insist that _no one_ should have to risk getting hit with the stuff. it is the absolute opposite of privilege to say it is wrong and destructive for _anyone_ to have to put up with threats and insults over the internet, and to want that stuff to stop. for everyone. including women.

just because you like playing in a pile of shit doesn't mean the rest of us have to do the same.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17275
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfo wrote:

Quote:
You can't say that the video game industry doesn't create real social injustices, it does. Something that large and influential does not exist in a vacuum. Again, simple google search, lots of results. Try, at least a little, to educate yourself before you inundate us with your logorrhea.


And?
Why don't you go wage a war on porn. It's much more deplorable.
Or go wage a war on pimps. Prostitution is even worse.


i just had to point out - i find it highly amusing (and very instructive) that you see these as three separate issues. they are very much interconnected.
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