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2013-Sep-17 "You're A Good Friend"
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could I request that you not troll, though?

I'm not going to say "because it's annoying", because you wouldn't care about that.

But the sad thing is that there are people who actually are that stupid/clueless.

(I suppose I should apologize for taking you seriously and assuming that you were that stupid (I didn't reply because other people already had), but people are going to assume that if you act it. When you say things like that here, Poe's law comes into affect big time.)
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1103
Location: Hel

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*gasp*

A troll!

ROLL INITIATIVE
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

11.
(A roll of 8, plus 16 Dex.)
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Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Crap.
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How far is the troll from us?
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Guu



Joined: 06 Mar 2013
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:37 am    Post subject: Well.... Reply with quote

OK.

It did serve a purpose, though, and it was not simply to amuse myself.

I kind of feel like I'm in a book club where there are a dozen books and I've read them all once except for #5 and #7 which I really liked and read over and over but now I sit among those who have read all the books multiple times and know the characters inside-out and can discuss the writer's style and how it changed dramatically from books #3-5, but then got really weird for a while but then got Old School in #8 and... well, you get the idea.

I'm out of my league here and want to give a crap but I'm finding it hard to. So, I mess about. A part of me wishes I could see what you are all seeing and enjoy this strip again like I did pre-2008. I stopped reading it from then until 2011 or so and quickly discovered I was having trouble recognizing what I saw. I must have missed quite a bit of character development. Am I missing out? Has the artist jumped the shark? I really don't quite know.

Maybe an analogy will help. I used to watch Gallagher's shows on HBO in the 80's. His comedy was decent and he made me laugh from time to time, but I preferred Carlin, Murphy, and even Cosby. But, anyway, after seeing the sledge-o-matic twice I was done with it. And now all he's remembered for is that bit that was only funny once, really. So, now here I am at Sinfest, reading away and enjoying the artwork thoroughly, when out comes the sledge-o-matic again (The Patriarchy). All I could do was stare. "This, again? Really?" And when I ask about it all I get in response is snark. Endless snark. So, I tried going the troll route, hoping I'd get some answers among the reactions (which I did, a bit). Not going that route again, though. Feels icky.

I'm not interested in telling anyone what they should or should not enjoy nor do I wish to poop in the pool. But, I must ask:

Why do you enjoy Sinfest? Why does the sledge-o-matic still amuse? What am I missing here?
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1055

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

18. Initiative + 2d6, because I'm playing Iron Kingdoms because it's AWESOME.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6560

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3. FUCK. Why do I always fail initiative checks? I PLAY ROGUES I SHOULD NOT BE FAILING INITIATIVE.
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MerchManDan



Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2037
Location: Somewhere else.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
Eh, it's a battle I couldn't care less about xD
It sucks me in when you're aloof.
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mouse wrote:
almost a shame to waste dennis' talent on him.
except it's always a pleasure to see a good dennis insult.
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MerchManDan



Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2037
Location: Somewhere else.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Re: Well.... Reply with quote

Guu wrote:
And when I ask about it all I get in response is snark. Endless snark. So, I tried going the troll route, hoping I'd get some answers among the reactions (which I did, a bit). Not going that route again, though. Feels icky.
....really? Your previous comments - in which you complain about how "misandrist" the comic has become - were the NON-trollish comments? And you lament how you're rewarded with snark. REALLY.

I stay with the comic because I find it amusing and relevant; I don't feel as though I'm being beaten over the head with a message. If you feel so differently, and if you don't like how people treat you in this forum, why DO you come back? Here, you say you come back in the hopes that Sinfest has returned to its un-PC roots. I'm not sure that's true, since here you are complaining again.

What are you missing? I don't know; all I know is that if you dislike Sinfest so much, ignore it. Ignore this forum; ignore all of us. Everyone will be better off for it.
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mouse wrote:
almost a shame to waste dennis' talent on him.
except it's always a pleasure to see a good dennis insult.
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Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MerchManDan rolled a natural 20, I see Smile
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, so I guess you're just too good for D&D 3.5 like the rest of us, huh!

Guu:
Most of us don't actually know the strip any better than you. The big difference is that we're people who stayed/came after Tat went on a huge political shift -- while the early strips are a whole lot of "edgy" humor, with all the "pimp!Slick" stuff and all that. Around... 2008? Tat discovered feminism, and as he read more about it he realized that a bunch of his old strips were sexist, normalized pimping and the like, were rather racist and reenforced/okayed really dated stereotypes (Blaxploitation Funk Bible).

So Sinfest took a huge turn for the heavily feminist and political, and a few of his fans took exception to that. (As well as people who never read Sinfest, who just take that position against all vaguely feminist anythings.) We who are here are largely really pro-feminist, and so have a really easy time seeing the comics from a feminist perspective, and so understanding what Tat is trying to say.

So it's not like us having read the books a whole bunch -- it like the book club is reading Animal Farm, and you don't know about Soviet Russia.
The solution to that, of course, is to read up on feminism.

The Patriarchy thing is similar -- it's basically the Soviet Russia/The Farm in the comparison to Animal Farm. The idea of the patriarchy (generalized to kyriarchy by some modern stuff) is that there are parts of our society specifically set up to benefit men (more generally, certain sets of people), who therefore consciously or subconsciously try to defend them. That concept is, in Sinfest, The Patriarchy.
It doesn't keep coming up because it's some sort of in-joke or something -- it keeps coming up because it's literally impossible for any person to do anything without being a part of society, which means interacting with some set of the biases, social norms, stereotypes, etc. that all combine to benefit men and restrain women. The Patriarchy isn't some sort of constant repeated joke that we all llke -- it keeps coming up because it's always there.

The Patriarchy stuff doesn't attract up because we find it funny or something. It attracts us because we see it and think "yes, that's exactly how I feel".

The snark comes from something different. The snark comes from the fact that people who used to like it come back, or people-just-against-feminism link to us, and we have a constant flood of "Feminism stinks, you're all just anti-men, all these characters are misandrists, Slick was so much better when he was a sexist creep, I could identify with him then, what is this sexism you speak of, I have a lot of women, women just can't keep their hands off me, and one of them even told me all this stuff was okay, feminazi, ..." etc. While ideally, we would all reply nicely and politely and stuff, it gets really, really, draining. The snark is the only way to deal with them and stay sane*.

In conclusion -- we enjoy Sinfest because it's good. The "sledge-o-matic" Patriarchy doesn't amuse -- instead, it agrees with us in a world where not many things do; it also assures us that this is not a sexist, racist, etc. comic, and that very rarely will we find a punchline that directly insults our morals. (It's not perfect, which we understand, and which is what we talk a lot about when we aren't snarking for self-preservation.)

And the big thing is the thing that you're missing. You're missing the feminism, which is a really complex topic, yes, but is really rewarding to look at, and more importantly the right thing to do.**

* I'm relatively new here, which is why I haven't gotten that much into the snarking and instead still idealistically tried to deal with the trolls by feeding them tea-and-crumpets. Which worked this time, I guess.

** I, um... don't really have any links to "intro to feminism" stuff on hand, but really, as long as you're polite and understand that most people who publicly say they're feminist online get a constant barrage of hate/trolling, you could probably find some major discussion forum and just ask for links. Or maybe people here have them.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10622
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moor: We need Moor new posters like you Wink

Anywho, Tat's stuff is really about "Third Wave Feminism", of which, BMO (as in Adventure Time) is expressive of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqtNSdDFGBM Wink
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MerchManDan



Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2037
Location: Somewhere else.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jody wrote:
MerchManDan rolled a natural 20, I see Smile
Pure chance, of course. Since I didn't use fire or acid, though, my attack probably didn't do diddly.

Also, 3.5 is quite awesome and is only second to Pathfinder.
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mouse wrote:
almost a shame to waste dennis' talent on him.
except it's always a pleasure to see a good dennis insult.
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to get Pathfinder. I did 3.5 because I had it on my shelf.

I mean, I also have 4.0, but... no. No.

(And Call of Cthulhu doesn't have initiative, does it?)

And thanks very much, Darc. The funny thing is, I stutter like mad in meatland, and so I can never do stuff like this there. (Also, amusingly enough, last time I gave a feminism-related-rant I was also punned.)
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