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2014-01-05: Target 14
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 1804
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SA_Penguin wrote:
the girls with the tech power seem rather anti-fembot.


lmao. xanthe disapproves of milton building them for the reasons why he builds them, and her friend disapproves of the usage of them, but neither of them have been shown to have anything against the creations themselves. why would they? they have no control over the circumstances behind their existences, having very little free will and all, and pose no harm to them. xanthe has defended rogue before, and her friend is shown to be nothing but encouraging of the idea of fembots being free and gaining free-will as well as equipping them with the less pleasant knowledge the factory refuses to provide them with. the reason they are destroying the illuminati drones is because they are a physical threat to their safety as individuals - they spy on them and demand they conform to d-man's ideals and they have made an attempt on xanthe's life before. the sisterhood had never harmed a single drone until that point, in which it became clear that the drones are a threat and are not as harmless as they seem. and it's very likely that the drones that made an attempt on xanthe's life did so at the command of milton, simply because xanthe accidentally ran into one. so their destruction of drones does not affect any views of fembots as individuals they may have.
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wobster109



Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
wobster109 wrote:
As someone who dreams of getting my own fembot, specifically to fulfill fantasies I wouldn't expose real people to, I'm sympathetic to thinking of fembots as things.

You are super fucking creepy.


You know, it would be nice if you didn't say things like that to me. It would be nice if you imagined having a fetish that you could never be open about, not even to your closest friends. People who are gay can come out, and they'll face backlash and bullying and danger, but they will also have supporters, and they can live their dream and find happiness someday. But you will never live your dream.

And even then, whenever you go online, your fantasy is held up as the worst evil, and people make a mockery of you. You are the thing people compare evil to, like when people disapprove of homosexuality/evolution/puppy kicking/whatever, first they compare it to Hitler, and then they compare it to you. At least they will argue about whether homosexuality is evil. But for you, they assume it, they say Hitler and then they say your name in the same breath, and no one defends you.

And you've never even done anything, never even hurt anyone.

How about you leave me alone? I am NOT super fucking creepy.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6038
Location: California

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spoiler alert: wobster's fetish is just leather

or raping and murdering people, i can't tell
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 1804
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wobster109 wrote:
How about you leave me alone? I am NOT super fucking creepy.


Sorry, you kind of are. Not because you have a fetish, but the way you're letting it affect your line of thinking and your behavior. Having a fetish or a kink isn't a big deal. But I do find the way you're speaking about your fetish, and about the fembots, to be weird and creepy.
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1090
Location: Chamber of the House of Lords in the Palace of Westminister

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People with leather fetishes copulate wearing the skins of dead animals.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6375

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry wait, we're supposed to feel bad for you because you can't live your dream of... what? Hurting people against their will?*

That would be really funny if it wasn't so fucking creepy that you're serious.

I am under no moral obligation to support your desire to hurt people against their will.

*obviously bdsm is totally fine as long as everyone involved is consenting adults.
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 722
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alternate guesses for Wobster's deep dark secret he so creepily announced: necrophilia, bestiality or pedophilia. By the way, I've heard people argue for the rights of the people who have all of these fetishes. Hell, I've heard MRAs claiming that the legal age consent laws are oppressive to men and were created by evil feminists to unnaturally restrict their sexuality, that women start their decline at twenty (and by that they always mean "stop being as hot to my boner") while men reach their peak breadwinning peak in their 30s or 40s or whatever, so QED the "natural" state of things is old rich dudes impregnating teenagers.

Also, fuck you for comparing whatever the hell your super secret fetish is to the oppression of queer people.

(Also I doubt Wobster's fetish is BDSM, because that's fairly mainstream now)
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10655
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wobster109 wrote:
Dogen wrote:
wobster109 wrote:
As someone who dreams of getting my own fembot, specifically to fulfill fantasies I wouldn't expose real people to, I'm sympathetic to thinking of fembots as things.

You are super fucking creepy.


You know, it would be nice if you didn't say things like that to me. It would be nice if you imagined having a fetish that you could never be open about, not even to your closest friends. People who are gay can come out, and they'll face backlash and bullying and danger, but they will also have supporters, and they can live their dream and find happiness someday. But you will never live your dream.

And even then, whenever you go online, your fantasy is held up as the worst evil, and people make a mockery of you. You are the thing people compare evil to, like when people disapprove of homosexuality/evolution/puppy kicking/whatever, first they compare it to Hitler, and then they compare it to you. At least they will argue about whether homosexuality is evil. But for you, they assume it, they say Hitler and then they say your name in the same breath, and no one defends you.

And you've never even done anything, never even hurt anyone.

How about you leave me alone? I am NOT super fucking creepy.

You don't have to have hurt someone in order to be super fucking creepy. You just have to talk about how your sexual fetish isn't safe to experience with living people for some reason. That pretty much sticks you solidly in super-fucking-creepy-town. If you don't like it, talk to a mental health professional. I'm not saying it's easy to be less creepy, but a competent professional might be able to help.
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[CAUTION: The following probably proscribes inaccurate opinions to everyone, and will probably come off as kumbaya-level-saccharine]

The main reason people are getting upset is that, even if it would be genuinely good for you to have something approximating a fembot in real life, this is really, really not the place to say it. Since their introduction, fembots have been metaphors for anywhere from the effects of a culture which sells My Little Poledancer Dolls to young children, to human trafficking.
Which means that fembots are standing in for women in anywhere from kinda bad, to really, really bad situations.

Don't. Dehumanize. Them.

This isn't a comment or a judgement on your situation, or on your personality, and I know you didn't mean it like this, but Sinfest is hugely heavily metphored, and your dream literally de-metaphors to "I wish women really were disposable robots created solely for sexual pleasures."

Outside of the context of Sinfest, you might be able to have other discussions about fantasy-fulfilling robots. I'm not commenting on that.
But here, you really need to understand what's being said, and what you're saying, and you really need to stop.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3242
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the creepy kicks in when you say you identify with this person treating the fembots as things when in this context they aren't merely things. That's like the people who say they understand Warren Jeffs because they are attracted to younger people yet have to worry abput being tricked into breaking age based consent laws - as if the problem of a cult requiring its 12 and younger female membership to marry and sexually service their leader is on parr with an adult having to make sure their sexual partners are of age. Nit saying the fembot and FLDS situations are the same, but I hope that gets the gist of it across.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2661
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem starts when you start doing bad stuff to people you consider things. You'd have to put down a clear definition of what is a thing and what is a person. What if someone falls just outside those rules but is a person? What if a thing like fembot becomes a person? And how do you stop people who harm things from harming people when they start seeing them as things? If you give someone a thing that resembles a person, how can they differentiate the 2 after a while?

Wow that's a lot of whargleblargle.
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jrdelirio



Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Offshore

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
Wait but real humans don't have self destruct mechanisms planted in their arms/the ability to explode.
The fembots do not become biological humans when they enter the Reality Zone. They turn into "real" androids.

(Some will wonder: why does DevilCorp even build in the capability to develop an independent awareness? Spec: There must be enough demand from customers who don't want an obvious mechanical personality but rather a more sophisticated AI to interact with, and that level of intelligence has an emergent quality of awareness when not under limiter control. Milton and his fellow code devils were too good for their own good.)

And yes, in our reality, any actual android we could build in the foreseeable future would be a mere object. But - but - in Sinfest they stand for something else and saying you would want one to be used in that manner comes across really badly. In-Universe they are used by those who can't handle real people or for whom the Bomf District is too much. That is NOT presented as a positive.
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Posts: 507

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
any actual android we could build in the foreseeable future would be a mere object


Would they, or indeed, *should* they be, if we can build them with systems that are capable of passing more than the simpler versions of the Turing test? Or even with the level of AI we can achieve now?

I don't think that the above claim is a given when the pace of technology development is pretty unpredictable, and the bar that we're asking it to get over doesn't have a widely-agreed definition.
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wobster109



Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First things first: I am a woman.

Miss Magenta: I sympathize with Milton, and I don't like to be cursed at. You don't have to like him, and I don't agree with his choice, and I know the new bot was sentient. But I can understand why Milton wouldn't think so. Does that make me creepy? Does it make me "super fucking" creepy?

Samsally: Yes, you're supposed to sympathize with me, because I've had a dream all my life that I will never get to experience. Even if you find the dream weird and objectionable, you can still sympathize with a dream I'll never get to experience. By the way I have no intention of ever hurting anyone. If I did you could condemn me all you want. Did you know I stopped three drunk men from harassing two women of color on a train? They were all strangers. When I was in college I stopped a crowd of 50-ish boys from pressuring a girl to kiss someone, again all strangers. And I'm a small Asian-American woman. I fight racism and sexism and body-shaming in my own real life all the time. I'm the friend you can call up in the middle of the night, I'll drive you across town and back if you asked me to, I'll take whole days to take care of people who are ill. I never hurt anyone. You're not under any moral obligation to support my fantasies. But maybe you can be sympathetic of my situation. Maybe you do have a moral obligation to be kind to me.

Ennis: I'm a woman. I compare my fetish to the oppression of LGBTQIA people because that's how it is! LGBTQIA can expand to the whole alphabet and still it won't include me. In every aspect I have less rights, less respect, and less acceptance. If I were "out" I'd be in physical danger. I'll never have any rights/respect, nor do I ever expect to. You don't get to cheapen my experience and tell me that I don't deserve to compare my life to something else. You don't know. Don't tell me "fuck you". By the way, all those people you listed, I'll defend their rights: their right to draw child porn without involving any actual children, to role play with other consenting adults, to lick a horse's penis so long as they aren't injuring the animal. Wanting to draw child porn in your room is VERY DIFFERENT from wanting to violate age of consent!

Dogen: You do have to hurt someone to be creepy! Otherwise it's all personal judgment! And anyways it's perfectly safe but that's besides the point. By the way, do you know how many times I've confided in a close friend and been told to go to mental health, so they can take away my desire and replace it with nothing? I don't need to change. And you know, maybe most people do find it creepy, but it doesn't hurt any less to be called super fucking creepy just because it's happened a bunch of times before. Maybe I'm a person behind the screen who's hurt by things like that.

Moor: I don't say the battlebot wasn't real in Sinfest world. I said I sympathize with Milton, and I understand why he would think so. I said I know what it's like thinking of fembots as not-people. Not that it's Sinfest-accurate or even right, but that I can see why Milton thinks so. Anyways I brought it up because people were saying it's impossible to like Milton anymore, so I tried to explain why I still liked him. Also: funny that of all the people insulting me and calling me names, I'm the one who needs to stop.

stripeypants: I identify with Milton because he doesn't know. He's used to thinking a certain way and doesn't know what a reality zone is like. It's more like judging a person who's attracted to children but deals with it by playing with dolls. I'm sympathetic to pedophiles who fantasize and draw child porn and never ever touch a real child. No one chooses to be attracted to children. If they ever hurt a real child, I would condemn them and hate them. But if they write fanfiction in their own houses and draw their own art? I'm not going to judge them.

Yinello: I say stay clear of anything ambiguous.
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1090
Location: Chamber of the House of Lords in the Palace of Westminister

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as you are not hurting anyone, you are alright by me.
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