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The gun violence thread.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you not a fan of freedom of the press or something?
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Mindslicer



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Are you not a fan of freedom of the press or something?


Did I say the government should censor them?
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mouse



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mindslicer wrote:
mouse wrote:
but the article explicitly says they are looking at cases where a 'stand your ground' defense was used.


http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases

And there's Trayvon Martin in the top row, in a case in which the "Stand Your Ground" defense was not used.


it may not have been used in the final trial, but zimmerman invoked it when the shooting happened, which is why the police didn't make much of an investigation at the time. note that 35% of the cases where it was invoked were "not charged or dismissed by prosecuters" - that's a big chunk of cases that presumably _would_ have have been subjected to at least judgement, prior to "stand your ground".
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Mindslicer



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
Mindslicer wrote:
mouse wrote:
but the article explicitly says they are looking at cases where a 'stand your ground' defense was used.


http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases

And there's Trayvon Martin in the top row, in a case in which the "Stand Your Ground" defense was not used.


it may not have been used in the final trial, but zimmerman invoked it when the shooting happened,


The police reports don't make that claim.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a little more complicated than that.
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Mindslicer



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it really isn't. The only thing that might have changed would be Zimmerman being arrested the night of the shooting rather than later. Zimmerman would still quite likely have been acquitted because the SYG statute, ultimately, had no bearing on the actual trial itself. Ergo, it's not a Stand Your Ground case. Even your link quotes a juror mistakenly citing SYG as a reason for acquittal.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mindslicer wrote:
No, it really isn't. The only thing that might have changed would be Zimmerman being arrested the night of the shooting rather than later. Zimmerman would still quite likely have been acquitted because the SYG statute, ultimately, had no bearing on the actual trial itself. Ergo, it's not a Stand Your Ground case. Even your link quotes a juror mistakenly citing SYG as a reason for acquittal.

Do you think we'd even be having this conversation about SYG if it wasn't for the Trevon Martin case? Maybe, but maybe not.
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Mindslicer



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Mindslicer wrote:
No, it really isn't. The only thing that might have changed would be Zimmerman being arrested the night of the shooting rather than later. Zimmerman would still quite likely have been acquitted because the SYG statute, ultimately, had no bearing on the actual trial itself. Ergo, it's not a Stand Your Ground case. Even your link quotes a juror mistakenly citing SYG as a reason for acquittal.

Do you think we'd even be having this conversation about SYG if it wasn't for the Trevon Martin case? Maybe, but maybe not.


Does that make the case a Stand Your Ground case in the legal sense?
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Moor



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mindslicer wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
Mindslicer wrote:
No, it really isn't. The only thing that might have changed would be Zimmerman being arrested the night of the shooting rather than later. Zimmerman would still quite likely have been acquitted because the SYG statute, ultimately, had no bearing on the actual trial itself. Ergo, it's not a Stand Your Ground case. Even your link quotes a juror mistakenly citing SYG as a reason for acquittal.

Do you think we'd even be having this conversation about SYG if it wasn't for the Trevon Martin case? Maybe, but maybe not.


Does that make the case a Stand Your Ground case in the legal sense?

No, but it does make it a Stand Your Ground case in a cultural sense, in that cases like it will be more common if Stand Your Ground is re-enforced.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's also the case that brought 'stand your ground' to national attention. rightly or wrongly, it's forever associated.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The family that shoots together . . .

http://www.wsmv.com/story/25180142/homeowner-shoots-burglary-suspect-in-winter-haven

Quote:
WINTER HAVEN, FL (WFLA) - A family in Winter Haven shot and killed a burglary suspect, according to the Winter Haven Police report.

Officers responded to the burglary call around 6:50 a.m. Monday. When they arrived to 4219 Lake Marianna Drive they found the burglary suspect, identified as 40-year-old Mitchell Large, dead in the residence.

According to WHPD, the suspect was a complete stranger to the family who lived in the house. Police said, the homeowner Luis F. Pena, 54, his wife Bacenbina A. Pena, 53, and their son Luis A. Pena, 27, were all home when they heard a noise early Monday morning. A forth person, Lilliana E. Pena, 20, was also inside of the home, but did not witness the incident.

Luis A. Pena went to check on that and found somebody rattling the french doors leading off a back porch area. He pulled out a gun and fired a shot trying to scare off the intruder but the burglar didn't stop.

The young man went back to the kitchen where his mother and father were, both armed. Police say Large continued to charge at the residents and the three of them all shot at the intruder when they saw him.

At least one of the shots hit Large, of Winter Haven, in the torso. An autopsy is currently being conducted.

Detectives haven't confirmed how many times the Penas pulled the triggers, but the intruder was dead when the law enforcement arrived. They continue to investigate.

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mouse



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's....bizarre. why would a burglar keep coming, when he knew there were people with guns awake in the house and aware of him?
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San Padrone



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He wanted to go down like an action hero
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nathan



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
that's....bizarre. why would a burglar keep coming, when he knew there were people with guns awake in the house and aware of him?


Toxoplasma gondii.

I'd think you of all people could sympathize.
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathan wrote:
mouse wrote:
that's....bizarre. why would a burglar keep coming, when he knew there were people with guns awake in the house and aware of him?


Toxoplasma gondii.

I'd think you of all people could sympathize.


wut
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