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2014-01-20 All Enigma to Myself
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tricksterson



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 438

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geareye wrote:
For crying out loud Slick, it annoys me to see you making the same dumb mistake again and again. It doesn't work like that. The one with the cookies is the old lady, not the one with the glasses.

Gosh, this kid never learns.
Yeah but Slick has "other" reasons for wanting Xanthe's approval, reasons he's not willing to admit to.
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zarus



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estranged wrote:
Back in the days when Sinfest wasn't one-dimensional self-bashing for not being an eunuch, things used to be more convincing, funny and full of richness and depth at the same time:



We are all - male and female - placed in a cruel game that gives us different physical equipment and therefore different sexual priorities and strategies.
But no! Sea turtles, feel guilty for your proclivity to swim!


I agree, actually, it seems like what they're really doing is making fun of him for being unsuccessful.

That said, I think of the Fems as just one faction out of many, just like I view Devilcorp. And Monique DID have to take a break from him, she needs/deserves her angst and character development probably more than he does. I just wish it didn't express itself in a form that was so... banal, but then this might be the easiest way for her to make a break from her earlier, more lighthearted, "false," persona.


Last edited by zarus on Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Hekateras



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estranged,

Please tell me you're a troll. I don't want to believe that anyone could just stumble into a complex discussion (in general, not this specific thread yet) and throw a bunch of cliched lines at people and sound so smug, like they just accomplished something new.

Quote:
Back in the days when Sinfest wasn't one-dimensional

That's, like, your opinion, dude.

Quote:
self-bashing for not being an eunuch,


Strawman and hyperbole. Conflation of a physical characteristic with a behavioural attitude.

Quote:
things used to be more convincing,


Opinion.

Quote:
funny and full of richness and depth at the same time:

Opinion. Opinion. Opinion.

Quote:
We are all - male and female


Because there are, of course, no other options. (<<- that is sarcasm)

Quote:
- placed in a cruel game that gives us different physical equipment and therefore different sexual priorities and strategies.


Citation needed. And that better be a damn good citation - a scientific one, not a PUA guide, preferably - to be a decent contribution into what is a very complicated field of research about nature, nurture, human culture, human behaviour, psychology and its intersections with biology, genetics and evolution. I sure hope you're up for it.

But nooo, by all means, strut in here and make a sweeping statement about the object of research of a dozen different disciplines and insist that "really, honestly, it just comes down to the genitals. Yup. Y'all can stop wasting grant money now, I've got the answer."

Quote:
But no! Sea turtles, feel guilty for your proclivity to swim!

Strawman and unfounded claim, two in one. Both for presenting this as the message the narrative is trying to give and for making the unfounded claim that the behaviour that is being criticised is as unavoidable for humans as swimming is for sea turtles.

Amazing. Such a short post, and I nearly filled all my Bingo slots.

Want to hear my little theory? Or hypothesis, if you will.

I feel like everyone who comments on the comic along the lines of "it's one-dimensional and keeps dropping the anvil and hammering the same message over and over again" is severely over-estimating and over-perceiving the amount of 'feminism' in the narrative, for the simple reason that even the smallest hint of it will jump out at that because they' feel attacked by it, probably because they're guilty of the same behaviour that the narrative is implicitly criticising. Thus, messages of feminism that are subtle enough that a decently feminist (in, of course, the sense of 'open-minded and well-intentioned to treating women like equals') reader wouldn't even notice them, but the average dudebro will feel personally attacked. This creates an overly defensive reaction and results in the type of posts we see here day after day.

What do you think?

(Hahaha, I'm sorry. I still can't get over the sheer self-unaware arrogance and ignorance of making sweeping claims about one of the most complicated fields of interdisciplinary science based on a handful of slogans you heard from various shady role models and movie characters as you were growing up. That is genuinely hilarious.)
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wobster109



Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Whore" is a women-hating word. It's used to put down women for natural and normal urges. Female sea turtles swim too.

However, I do miss old Fuchsia, who loved nature and told stories and was happy some of the time. I want to see her doing normal, non-victim things at least some of the time. It seems like for the past couple years, she's been predominantly a suffering victim.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10655
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hekateras wrote:
Citation needed. And that better be a damn good citation - a scientific one, not a PUA guide, preferably - to be a decent contribution into what is a very complicated field of research about nature, nurture, human culture, human behaviour, psychology and its intersections with biology, genetics and evolution. I sure hope you're up for it.

Oh, I like you. How have I not noticed you before?
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2661
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wobster109 wrote:

However, I do miss old Fuchsia, who loved nature and told stories and was happy some of the time. I want to see her doing normal, non-victim things at least some of the time. It seems like for the past couple years, she's been predominantly a suffering victim.


Wasn't her last comic one where she joked about horses and their sexual prowess? I feel like she's much happier lately - painting and hanging out with Crim seems to be more in the picture.

I'd be more worried if after a while of self-therapy she'd turn into this happy woman with no troubles in the world whatsoever. It seems a bit unreal for her problems never to arise again, especially since they've plagued her all her life. Fallback so now and then is not unusual for PTSD victims.
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Hekateras



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Hekateras wrote:
Citation needed. And that better be a damn good citation - a scientific one, not a PUA guide, preferably - to be a decent contribution into what is a very complicated field of research about nature, nurture, human culture, human behaviour, psychology and its intersections with biology, genetics and evolution. I sure hope you're up for it.

Oh, I like you. How have I not noticed you before?


*tips fedora and bows*

Glad to entertain. I post very sporadically and mostly lurk. *vanishes in a puff of lurky smoke*
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1090
Location: Chamber of the House of Lords in the Palace of Westminister

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good show!

*applauds vigorously*
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*tosses a full bouquet of internets up on the stage*
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 722
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*cheers encouragingly* Bravo! Bravo! You should post more often!
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Eten



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Slickcils, take a balanced Jedi approach!
It worked in the movies.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1017

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hekateras: You're sort of amazing.


In general: So... I've gotten the impression that it's not about the cookies any more. Perhaps as self-validation, perhaps trying to impress Xanthe, who he feels as the face of the Sisterhood and feminism by proxy.

Slick is a complex character. I've stood by it in the past and I will stand by it again. Much like the whole strip is becoming less and less 'preachy' let's say, the necessity of Slick as a stereotype of chauvinism has decreased, and thus he can return to much of what has been his personality through most of the strip: Someone that has vices but tries to be better. Seeks enlightenment and love, as well as artistic fulfilment when it comes to his poetry.

In that sense, it has become steadily easier to ship him with Xanthe, I think, as she seems to be part of the reason that stimulated this return of the more complex Slick.

With that said I suppose that

Quote:
That's, like, your opinion, dude.

But hey, aren't we here to analyse the subtext?
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1090
Location: Chamber of the House of Lords in the Palace of Westminister

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Slick is a complex character. I've stood by it in the past and I will stand by it again. Much like the whole strip is becoming less and less 'preachy' let's say, the necessity of Slick as a stereotype of chauvinism has decreased, and thus he can return to much of what has been his personality through most of the strip: Someone that has vices but tries to be better. Seeks enlightenment and love, as well as artistic fulfilment when it comes to his poetry.

In that sense, it has become steadily easier to ship him with Xanthe, I think, as she seems to be part of the reason that stimulated this return of the more complex Slick.


I concur with this.
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vector010



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estranged wrote:
Back in the days when Sinfest wasn't one-dimensional self-bashing for not being an eunuch, things used to be more convincing, funny and full of richness and depth at the same time:



We are all - male and female - placed in a cruel game that gives us different physical equipment and therefore different sexual priorities and strategies.
But no! Sea turtles, feel guilty for your proclivity to swim!


Just because, I decided to go back and do some counting. Broke it up into 4 categories. Comics that had even the slightest appearance of the sisterhood (even them in the background in one panel), comics that had overt feminism, comics with implied feminism, and comics with no determinable feminism and no appearance of the sisterhood. The first three categories can obviously have overlap, so one comic may be counted multiple times, once for each category that applies. Over the past 65 comics we find, 18.4% (12) comics where the sisterhood makes and appearance, 3.08% (2) comics with overt feminism, 10.77% (7) comics with implied feminism, and 76.92% (50) comics with no appearance of sisterhood and no obvious feminism.


Oh yes, this comic is all one dimensional self bashing for not being a eunuch.</sarcasm>

Source: Math, is cool!
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zarus



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And what if you take a sample from July-August of 2013? The Sisterhood's prevalence has been on the decline, no doubt.
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