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This is why Sony will sell me a PS3.
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andrew



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 4495
Location: the raging sea

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes I really really can because my hands hurt after a long gaming session for the PS2 and they do not with the Xbox. The xbox controllers are larger and fit my hands better than those Japanese hand sized controllers from the PS2.


Since your comparison was generalized, anecdotal evidence about your hands being bigger is irrelevant. The overall trend regarding the controllers is above and beyond in favor of Sony's.

Quote:
I really really REALLY wanted Sony to be better, and they just aren't IMHO. The PS2 is another Betamax with fans that won't be persuaded any other way


The Betamax comparison is terrible; Sony dominated the last generation's console market. The X-Box was released 13 months after the PS2 was but four years of head to head competition had failed to realize more than a quarter of PS2's sales. There were 3-4 months, TOTAL in that time period when X-Box sales were better than PS2's.

In comparison, the Betamax experienced a rapid decline immediately following the release of VHS, and it never recovered - Sony opted to slightly modify the format and successfully introduced the revised Betamax (more commonly know as Hi-Cool to camcorders. Calling the PS2 "another Betamax" is an attempt at taking your unusual personal experience and generalizing it, and it doesn't mesh with reality.

I understand and respect that you have your preferences, which are beyond debate, but your opinions on this matter are flat out wrong. I'm also a big proponent of voting with my dollar, and those are the only votes that count in business; the world voted with its dollars for the PS2 4 to 1.

Quote:
I'm waiting for history to repeat the betamax thing with Blu-Ray too. Or for the same thing to happen that happened with competing 56k modems - eventually they stopped feuding and made modems that could do both protocols. I've read where at least one MFG is trying to do a box that does both of the two HDDVD formats...


People like to compare every new Sony-backed technology with Betamax, but they also like to forget the long list of successful technologies that Sony backed.

That list includes CD. Oh, and CD-R.

Quote:
Maybe you are thinking of titles exclusive to the Xbox, and you may be right. I play primarily RPG's as well, and I have 20-30 titles for Xbox, and only 2 that I could only get on PS2 (because they were Sony releases). And the Sony RPG's titles I've played on the PS2 were rat mazes with maybe the odd cut scene. Bleh.


I'm hoping you're being deliberately facetious, since every non-console-specific gaming magazine in the history of the universe acknowledges that the PS2 is far and away the system to go to to obtain RPGs.

Or, if you don't trust their opinion, you can count the number of titles. Let's jump to Best Buy's website for just one moment:

X-Box RPGs: 9
PS2 RPGs: 25

Or, if you prefer a more specialized comparison, we can look at Game Stop:

X-Box RPGs: 23
PS2 RPGs: 70

Again, your observations don't seem to be grounded in reality.

Edit to add: I didn't bother counting how many were console specific, but you may safely take my word for it that Sony destroys Microsoft in this regard.
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CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 3772

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andrew wrote:
Quote:
I really really REALLY wanted Sony to be better, and they just aren't IMHO. The PS2 is another Betamax with fans that won't be persuaded any other way


The Betamax comparison is terrible; Sony dominated the last generation's console market. The X-Box was released 13 months after the PS2 was but four years of head to head competition had failed to realize more than a quarter of PS2's sales. There were 3-4 months, TOTAL in that time period when X-Box sales were better than PS2's.

In comparison, the Betamax experienced a rapid decline immediately following the release of VHS, and it never recovered - Sony opted to slightly modify the format and successfully introduced the revised Betamax (more commonly know as Hi-Cool to camcorders. Calling the PS2 "another Betamax" is an attempt at taking your unusual personal experience and generalizing it, and it doesn't mesh with reality.

I understand and respect that you have your preferences, which are beyond debate, but your opinions on this matter are flat out wrong. I'm also a big proponent of voting with my dollar, and those are the only votes that count in business; the world voted with its dollars for the PS2 4 to 1.

Quote:
I'm waiting for history to repeat the betamax thing with Blu-Ray too. Or for the same thing to happen that happened with competing 56k modems - eventually they stopped feuding and made modems that could do both protocols. I've read where at least one MFG is trying to do a box that does both of the two HDDVD formats...


People like to compare every new Sony-backed technology with Betamax, but they also like to forget the long list of successful technologies that Sony backed.

That list includes CD. Oh, and CD-R.


Don't forget the memory stick pro duo format for flash cards, which is essentially only supported for the PSP (and thus, I would argue, largely constitutes a failure) and their original go at a format for DVDs (remember? When DVDs first came out, there were two formats, one by Sony and one by... someone else I can't recall. Sony's failed, at any rate).

Now, did Sony back the CD and CD-R, or did they develop them? There's a big difference, as it's easy to back a successful format, but it's not easy to develop one (as shown with Beta and the ones I listed).

The Betamax comparison is an easy diversion from actually examining facts, but it's there, none the less.


Quote:
Quote:
Maybe you are thinking of titles exclusive to the Xbox, and you may be right. I play primarily RPG's as well, and I have 20-30 titles for Xbox, and only 2 that I could only get on PS2 (because they were Sony releases). And the Sony RPG's titles I've played on the PS2 were rat mazes with maybe the odd cut scene. Bleh.


I'm hoping you're being deliberately facetious, since every non-console-specific gaming magazine in the history of the universe acknowledges that the PS2 is far and away the system to go to to obtain RPGs.

Or, if you don't trust their opinion, you can count the number of titles. Let's jump to Best Buy's website for just one moment:

X-Box RPGs: 9
PS2 RPGs: 25

Or, if you prefer a more specialized comparison, we can look at Game Stop:

X-Box RPGs: 23
PS2 RPGs: 70

Again, your observations don't seem to be grounded in reality.

Edit to add: I didn't bother counting how many were console specific, but you may safely take my word for it that Sony destroys Microsoft in this regard.


Better: Look at gamefaqs.com's list of RPGs for each system. They've got 50-60 for xbox (including a couple multiple listings of the same game, like a version with a colon and without), and a few hundred for the PS2. It's not even comparable. The list of exclusives is a lot smaller for each, but there're a lot more PS2 exclusives than Xbox ones, as a quick scan will show that almost all of the Xbox RPGs are ports or multi-platform releases (including the two I listed, which makes me really wonder what Timmy was getting at, asking if I was talking about XBox exclusives, as I specifically stated as part of my PS2 support that both of those were available on the computer as well).

So, Timmy boy, are you being intentionally disingenous/trolly, or what's your game, here?
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BoySetsFire



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 374
Location: Rex Kwan Doe enthusiast

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think he meant the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD situation was hearkening back to Beatmax.

also, the second generation of the Xbox(original) controller is every bit as good as the Playstation controller if not better.

the 360's controllers are almost perfect for me. they're a little bigger than playstation's and they tend to make the tops of my wrists bow outwards rather then angling in. the angling in really makes my wrists hurt, which is one of the biggest reason's why i don't playing PS1/2/3.

also, one of the developer's for Assassin's Creed has said that the 360 version of it will have better AI than the PS3 because of the way the processors in the 360 handle threading.

it seems the you guys like japanese style rpgs, so here's a few for 360

Blue Dragon

http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/6148

and

Trusty Bell

http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/6325
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andrew



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 4495
Location: the raging sea

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Don't forget the memory stick pro duo format for flash cards, which is essentially only supported for the PSP (and thus, I would argue, largely constitutes a failure)


Why? They make money off the format.

Quote:
their original go at a format for DVDs (remember? When DVDs first came out, there were two formats, one by Sony and one by... someone else I can't recall. Sony's failed, at any rate).


The SD DVD format, and it didn't fail; Sony & Philips surrendered early in the game, anticipating failure, which is (slightly) different.

Quote:
Now, did Sony back the CD and CD-R, or did they develop them? There's a big difference, as it's easy to back a successful format, but it's not easy to develop one (as shown with Beta and the ones I listed).


Sony backed CD and helped engineer a significant portion of the technology, with Philips. They engineered CD-R.
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timmccloud



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 633
Location: Marshall, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andrew wrote:
I'm hoping you're being deliberately facetious, since every non-console-specific gaming magazine in the history of the universe acknowledges that the PS2 is far and away the system to go to to obtain RPGs.


Nope Andrew, I am not being facetious at all. Just because there are more titles does not equate to more of anything remotely like a game I would like to play. The RPG titles exclusive to PS2 that I have personally experienced on the PS2 have been all about the look down from above rat maze. Nothing like the openness of Morrowind, or Fable, or the sheer fun of Xmen, and KOTOR I & II, some of which MAY be available on the PS2, I don't know, and after experiencing the PS2 first hand, I don't care.

These are my opinions yes, you are very correct. I don't give a damn about reviews by experts or the fact the PS2 sold 4:1 over the xbox. In this case I don't give a flying fart about whatever trend there is in controllers - I personally liked my xbox controllers better that the Sony ones, for the reasons I stated. I read the reviews, purchased both systems, and made my own opinions doing a (literally) side by side comparison. Feel free to disagree with my opinions and pick them apart like you have, I would not have posted here if I wasn't looking for discussion on the subject. Facts may be wrong, but my opinions can't be wrong because they are MY opinions.

And the fact is that the power buttons of my version of the PS2 suck when compared to my xbox.
And the fact is that my hands hurt using the wireless PS2 controllers and in fact they are pelican brand.
And the fact is Xbox came with four built in controller ports and the PS2 still does not. Regardless of whether there are games that use them for that platform, I like games I can play with multiple friends (Gauntlet for example) so the xbox wins in this category for me.
And the fact is that the xbox does not require memory cards, and the PS2 does.
And the fact the internal hard drive was included on the xbox, and is yet another paid for option on the PS2.

I bought one of each system, tried it out, and have based my opinions on my personal empirical evidence. Do YOU have both systems in your home to make a personal comparison? Or are you basing all of this on the opinions of other people, regardless of the qualifications of the source?

For my next system I will take my hard earned money and put it on the platform I have found to be superior in the past - the Xbox. And regardless of popular culture, marketing surveys, or expert opinions from industry insiders, I will extend my own opinion in whatever forum I find on this subject like I did because I did the PERSONAL research, and I do believe the Xbox to be the superior system, and I don't like to see people to waste their money on a Sony PlayStation.

So I would like to agree to disagree with you. I am not "WRONG", my opinions are not "WRONG", they are mine and they fit my wife's and my playing style. Oh, and BTW my wife, who makes up her own opinions on things and disagrees with me constantly, happens to agree with me that the PS2 is a piece of shit.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GAMECUBE CONTROLLERS FTW!!!!1!1!!1!eleventy!
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death_to_dib



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 288
Location: Its getting colder in hell.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have all 3 (last gen didnt splurge on the 360) systems and i got to say ive gotten the most fun out of my PS2. Most of the RPGs ive played on the Xbox were letdowns. Fable was a GREAT idea i couldnt wait for it to come out but as all my friends agree it didnt really live up to the hype. Its very short and the differences between good and evil are kind of pointless... wow i did good things im nice... wow i did evil things now im bad. Oh wait that doesnt really change anything does it? Morrowind was a good and expansive game but the game of the year edition takes FOREVER to load... i enjoy the game a lot more on the PC. i cant knock you on kotor though i never played them but i never heard anything close to a bad opinion of them. Dont get me wrong i can understand not exactly loving everything the PS2 has... ive spent literally hours at a time sifting through all the crap titles they have to find a decent game before, but when it came down to it the PS2 was the system with the games that i just couldnt stop playing.
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andrew



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 4495
Location: the raging sea

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Facts may be wrong, but my opinions can't be wrong because they are MY opinions.


...what?

Opinions can be, and are often wrong.

Your preferences, however, are inviolate - as I stated previously.

I don't care which system you prefer; it doesn't matter to me. My objection was to your advancing your opinion as fact/gospel, which it is not.

Quote:
Nope Andrew, I am not being facetious at all. Just because there are more titles does not equate to more of anything remotely like a game I would like to play. The RPG titles exclusive to PS2 that I have personally experienced on the PS2 have been all about the look down from above rat maze. Nothing like the openness of Morrowind, or Fable, or the sheer fun of Xmen, and KOTOR I & II, some of which MAY be available on the PS2, I don't know, and after experiencing the PS2 first hand, I don't care.


By your own admission, your experience with PS2 (exclusive) RPGs is very limited. Without experiencing, or even researching your options on both systems, how can you claim that the X-Box is better?

One or two games is not experiencing a system. I'd be interested in knowing which games they were, and whether they were titles representative of the system's library.

Quote:
For my next system I will take my hard earned money and put it on the platform I have found to be superior in the past - the Xbox. And regardless of popular culture, marketing surveys, or expert opinions from industry insiders, I will extend my own opinion in whatever forum I find on this subject like I did because I did the PERSONAL research, and I do believe the Xbox to be the superior system, and I don't like to see people to waste their money on a Sony PlayStation.


Again, you're missing the point. Given your stated preferences, the X-Box is a better system for you. But you seem to think most people are like you, and would enjoy the X-Box as well; you are wrong and, as I've demonstrated, it's easy to back that up.

I don't object to you preaching the X-Box as the superior system. But I can and will disagree with you, and point out where you are either missing or ignoring the facts.

Quote:
I bought one of each system, tried it out, and have based my opinions on my personal empirical evidence. Do YOU have both systems in your home to make a personal comparison? Or are you basing all of this on the opinions of other people, regardless of the qualifications of the source?


I own or have owned both a PS2 and X-Box: PS2 since release day, X-Box since ~6 months after release until the 360 came out, at which point I sold it.
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Marik



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1234

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:05 am    Post subject: i know of many hands trained to believe in dual shock Reply with quote

CONSOLE WARS MCMLXII

A system is defined mostly by the games. Sony's last venture into the video game market was a shitty design which hosed many first-gen adopters, and they still use a controller design which crudely grafted analog sticks into an awkward position.

So what? Relative merits of the system itself are a tertiary concern. It still provided the better games that more people wanted, and it dominated market share. The games define the challenges and the victors.

Oh, and they had a good thing going for a while, until Sony brass decided that they wanted to hock their last profitable electronics enterprise on a high-stakes game to play their masochistic format war again. Where oh where will this take them?
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death_to_dib



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 288
Location: Its getting colder in hell.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Straight to hell?
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dazedb42



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2348
Location: Margaret River, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Game consoles are soo yesterday.

http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20060928-042215-5882r

Quote:
South Korea unveils gun-toting sentry robot
AFP

September 28, 2006

SEOUL -- South Korea Thursday unveiled a high-tech, machine gun-toting sentry robot that could support its troops in detecting and killing intruders along the heavily fortified border with North Korea.

The weapons-grade robot can detect, raise the alarm, and provide suppressive fire, said Lee Jae-Hoon, deputy minister of commerce, industry, and energy. "The Intelligent Surveillance and Guard Robot has surveillance, tracking, firing, and voice recognition systems built into a single unit," he added.

Lee said that hundreds of the robots could be deployed along the 155-mile-long (248 kilometer) demilitarized zone bisecting the two Koreas as well as along the country's coastline and at military airfields.

With modifications, they could also be used to guard civilian installations such as airports, power stations, and oil pipelines. However, the government has made no decision yet on whether to deploy the robots along the world's last Cold War frontier.

Equipped with visual and infra-red detection capabilities, the sentry robot can spot moving objects up to four kilometers (2.5 miles) away during the day and half that distance at night.

Via "pattern recognition," it can distinguish between humans, cars, or trees at two kilometers in daytime and one kilometer at night. Suppressive fire can be provided by a machine gun on top.


Want a real killer of a 1st PS. Want to keep those pesky door knockers away? This is for you.....
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MORROWIND GOTY ON PC FTW!!!!1!1!!1!eleventy!

hey sam do you still have that screen cap of the item loaded room?

Also I think the tool set for the game is killer.
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Marik



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1234

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:23 am    Post subject: riiiiiidge raaaacerrrrrrrrr Reply with quote

death_to_dib wrote:
Straight to hell?


The industry of video game critics -- who are just absolutely furious with Sony's retarded behavior these last six months -- have this idea that Sony's management is either

1. conspicuously retarded these days, or
2. secretly benevolent, attempting to give Nintendo a new lease on life

At any rate, the popular notion is that Microsoft is going to cruelly slash its prices come the Christmas season and bleed market share out of Sony; Wii will do better than 'the other system' (aka Gamecube) .. two improvements, there. Where's the attrition in market share going to come from?

By gum, it wouldn't possibly be that $600 console, would it?

I love video game politics. I'm completely disaffected and it's so ultimately trivial, so... the more drama and theatrics, the better.
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death_to_dib



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 288
Location: Its getting colder in hell.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah i have to agree sony is quite retarded these days... and that pains me because as i said i got the most enjoyment out of my PS2. Im praying that theyre going to come out at christmas and tell us it was all a joke.

wishful sony quote:
Quote:
you didnt actually believe we'd charge 600 bucks for a console that doesnt have cables or make a racing game you have to pay real money to race in did you? HAHAHA we got you man! no no no the REAL console is 300 bucks cables are all there and the games all come with tracks cars and all the other fun stuff.


outside of that... im thinking sony screwed itself.
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CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 3772

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So basically what you're saying, Timmy, is that the XBox is more suited towards the type of games you play (by the way, I'd argue that Morrowind and Fable, two games you've now mentioned as examples of how PS2 RPGs "should" be done, or whatever, are both better on computer, for a number of reasons, and thus really aren't good support examples for the XBox). Great. Say that. Don't say, unqualified, that the XBox is better. Better for you, yes, better for the general population? Sales data says the general population disagrees with you.

If you're going to argue for the XBox being superior, you really, really need to provide arguments that go beyond your personal tastes and into areas where a universal superiority, regardless of personal preferences (hand size and so forth) is demonstrated on non-trivial matters (You need an extra two seconds to push a second button. again, are you that damn lazy that it makes that big of a difference to you? just an example).
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