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2/12/2014 - Harassholes
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3141
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wtf does that mean?
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zarus



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hip hop, fraternities, the various subcultures. These things don't interest me and have never interested me, and yet corporations fall over each other trying to appeal to them. The sheer egoism of "youth culture" is a bigger problem than anything else associated with it, and so much of our media exists purely to encourage it.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3141
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you participate in a culture of some kind, or are you a space alien?
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3527
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zarus wrote:
Hip hop, fraternities, the various subcultures. These things don't interest me and have never interested me, and yet corporations fall over each other trying to appeal to them. The sheer egoism of "youth culture" is a bigger problem than anything else associated with it, and so much of our media exists purely to encourage it.


Most of what you are describing is manufactured culture, i.e. inherently fake to begin with.

But that doesn't mean you should show disdain for it necessarily.


There's always an element of the suppressed culture hidden inside of these fake manifestations.


For example, in South America, when Christianity was forced upon the natives, the natives incorporated parts of their original culture into Christian ceremonies, like singing and dancing.


The fusion can be nice to watch sometimes.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3141
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saint Lucifer is a neat movie about that, if you can get ahold of it. It's about some Nuahatl (sp?) people who fight with the Catholic Church to put on a play about St Michael that is a blend of Christianity and their own historical mythology.
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zarus



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Do you participate in a culture of some kind, or are you a space alien?


I am a proud Mechanist. I am not a soft, disgusting, imprecise neophyte Shaper like yourself.

explanation here
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3527
Location: Relative

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know zarus, if you want to find out the truth of this world, you have to be able to interact with everyone and everything.

There is precision even in the imprecise.

Entire systems of logic have been built from the imprecise. Fuzzy logic, all of that shit.


Kindness gets you far.
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zarus



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's clearly impossible, and therefore not worth the effort. The set of useful, intelligible ideas is infinitely smaller than the set of all ideas.

You are absolutely free to say that your small obsession is of infinite interest to yourself. You can not safely assume that others must give it the same degree of interest.
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Hekateras



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hitsch wrote:

But what I actually miss, is a way to address the problem. Because I believe this certain problem is rooted so deeply in the abyss of each and every human mind that it can't be attributet or changed to/by society and will not go away even within the next few fuckzillion years of our evolution.


It is a wide-spread problem but it's nowhere near as ingrained in the human genome as you seem to believe it to be. I live in Germany and, in these parts of it at least, I have seen very little of the kind of harassment I've seen women on the internet talk about. Germany's prevalence in terms of the relative frequency of sexual assault and rape, too, isn't quite as horrific as the USA's. The 'cure' is simple: teach men (and women) from birth that women are not inferior and not something to be expressed ownership of. Catcalling is a power show and a way of showing dominance, it's not exactly rocket science. Remove the underlying need to prove and keep proving one's masculinity to oneself and peers, and you remove the problem.

diagram12345 wrote:

As long as we're on the same page that the "on average, men tend to die more on the job" issue is completely irrelevant to sexual harassment, I have this to say about the former issue -- women are getting more education. More women than men are graduating both high school and college.

Thus, we're able to get the "better," more comfortable desk/office jobs where we're less likely to die on the job. Yes, there are some women who want more dangerous jobs where they're more likely to die during work. But that's not common, and I would argue that many of the men who take those dangerous, grueling physical jobs wouldn't do them if they could get a comfortable desk job with benefits.

So I would bring the conversation around to the difference in graduation rates between men and women -- why is this happening? Why is the school system failing our boys and/or why are boys not learning as well as girls?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the figures I've seen that show women getting more education than usually only show a difference of a few percentage points? That is a) not necessarily a statistically significant distance, and b) something that could potentially be explained by the fact that men have a well-paying alternative to college (and jobs that require a college degree) in the army, an alternative that is nowhere near as available to women. Wouldn't that difference alone go a long way towards explaining that women are getting 'more' education?

After all, college education is a choice, not an obligation. It's a good question why more men than women choose to and succeed in getting a college education, but it's not necessarily something that can be pinned on female-on-male discrimination.

Potential explanations (and these are just postulations, with no research to back it up, but they're possible, right?):

- The military thing, as mentioned above. Plenty of men go into the military and earn money there while almost no women do the same. Logically, more women will find themselves in college that way.
- Due to awareness of sexist bias in workplaces and the world in general, women may feel more under pressure than men to get a degree as a way of securing basic independence and hope to aspire to be anything other than someone's trophy wife.
- Women who *don't* aspire to be anything but trophy wives and mothers (which is a perfectly legitimate choice on a *personal* level, less so if it's a result of lack of options) may still pursue a college education simply to meet men and/or become more attractive to men, especially the kind of prestigious well-paid banker/lawyer/whathaveyou who would be embarrassed to have a wife so far below his "level".

By the way, as this research shows, women are less likely to be supported, funded and promoted in scientific fields with literally all other things being equal. Clearly, even if women are getting more college degrees, they're not necessarily doing a whole lot of good.


Last edited by Hekateras on Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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zarus



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, they're "liberal arts" degrees.
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3527
Location: Relative

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:36 am    Post subject: Ideas are intelligible by definition. Reply with quote

zarus wrote:
That's clearly impossible, and therefore not worth the effort. The set of useful, intelligible ideas is infinitely smaller than the set of all ideas.

You are absolutely free to say that your small obsession is of infinite interest to yourself. You can not safely assume that others must give it the same degree of interest.



There is however a path of least resistance to an objective, and in order to achieve this objective, you will have to pass through things that do not interest you.



Show me an idea that isn't useful to anyone, and I'll show you a use for it.
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zarus



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Useful" is subjective to some extent, I agree. I guess "of interest to me, or to causes that interest me."

And upon releasing myself from larger political/moral "obligations," I find that these struggles do not interest me, that the only outcome that would favor me would be either

1. The conflict continues without a clear victor

or

2. The conflict ends and all factions lose
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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Location: Relative

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zarus wrote:
"Useful" is subjective to some extent, I agree. I guess "of interest to me, or to causes that interest me."

And upon releasing myself from larger political/moral "obligations," I find that these struggles do not interest me.




What if I told you I could even make it interest you?
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zarus



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost anything can be of temporary interest to me.
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And yet, with access to different perspectives, and different forms of wisdom and knowledge, any interests can be changed permanently.


Humans by definition are not static beings.

The you right now can be entirely different from the you in a day, or even a minute.
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