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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 781
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet that by OklahomaSun's logic, Sucker Punch is a feminist film.
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
I bet that by OklahomaSun's logic, Sucker Punch is a feminist film.


Sucker Punch is best classified under the category of train wreck.
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firestk



Joined: 20 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, I'd just say it was a bad movie with an oversized budget. The set designs were worth looking at, however.
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

firestk wrote:
Honestly, I'd just say it was a bad movie with an oversized budget. The set designs were worth looking at, however.

Don't get me wrong, I think that it is visually incredible, and the fight scenes were pretty awesome. The plot though... Confused
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vector010



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OklahomanSun wrote:

I'm not in at the moment, on my phone, but I will post my assessment later.

I kept it simpler and merely labeled a strip as having a feminist theme or not.

labeling the fembot strips as non feminist is wrong, in my opinion.


Your opinion is demonstrably wrong.




It would be interesting to see how one gleans a feminist message from those examples.

In case of misunderstanding, fembot strips were not explicitly separated from feminist strips, they were just put into another category but also still counted in one of the feminism categories if they contained feminism, the same way sisterhood strips were done. Each strip is taken on its own merit.

I'm still curious where we diverge, factoring your own observational biases into account. I'm assuming it is the strips where Slick's view through Sleaze's glasses are displayed. Funny thing, Sleaze's glasses don't in any way talk towards feminism. They represent a world view where everthing is given a specific value and can be bought or sold for the right price (price does not have to be monetary). The value and price are observable through the glasses. This is done for everything, Squig is shown with a price tag, plants are, etc. The glasses have so far appeared to be entirely unbiased in this regard. People prescribe a feminist message to them primarily because they came from a known and extremely misogynistic character, but objectively speaking, the message does not exist when judging each strip on individual merit.
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OklahomanSun



Joined: 16 Mar 2014
Posts: 359

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vector010 wrote:
OklahomanSun wrote:

I'm not in at the moment, on my phone, but I will post my assessment later.

I kept it simpler and merely labeled a strip as having a feminist theme or not.

labeling the fembot strips as non feminist is wrong, in my opinion.


Your opinion is demonstrably wrong.




It would be interesting to see how one gleans a feminist message from those examples.

In case of misunderstanding, fembot strips were not explicitly separated from feminist strips, they were just put into another category but also still counted in one of the feminism categories if they contained feminism, the same way sisterhood strips were done. Each strip is taken on its own merit.

I'm still curious where we diverge, factoring your own observational biases into account. I'm assuming it is the strips where Slick's view through Sleaze's glasses are displayed. Funny thing, Sleaze's glasses don't in any way talk towards feminism. They represent a world view where everthing is given a specific value and can be bought or sold for the right price (price does not have to be monetary). The value and price are observable through the glasses. This is done for everything, Squig is shown with a price tag, plants are, etc. The glasses have so far appeared to be entirely unbiased in this regard. People prescribe a feminist message to them primarily because they came from a known and extremely misogynistic character, but objectively speaking, the message does not exist when judging each strip on individual merit.


You haven't posted all of the fembot strips. I wonder if perhaps some of them didn't support your point as much.


Of the two you showed, the first one I did not classify as a feminist strip in my assessment. The second one I leaned 50/50 on and I did.

She may be going to get revenge, so her personal goal is not feminist, but let's remember that this isn't real life and we're not reading this in a history book or watching it live. This is a cartoonist's character, and she's going to assault some Devil Corp assets, who are most assuredly a major element of the Patriarchy. The cartoonist is sending one of his characters to go after the creator of fembots. There's at the minimum an argument to be made that it has feminist linkings.

Later on in the month, when she hisses at the Fembot sexy poster, would you label that as having no feminism in it? I placed that one in the feminist category.


I'm more than willing to put a category next to each day's strip, but probably without linking the strips since a thread with 30 strips would be a bit much. I'll supply my rationale for it as well. It will just have to wait for Monday.
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vector010



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OklahomanSun wrote:
You haven't posted all of the fembot strips. I wonder if perhaps some of them didn't support your point as much.


Of the two you showed, the first one I did not classify as a feminist strip in my assessment. The second one I leaned 50/50 on and I did.

She may be going to get revenge, so her personal goal is not feminist, but let's remember that this isn't real life and we're not reading this in a history book or watching it live. This is a cartoonist's character, and she's going to assault some Devil Corp assets, who are most assuredly a major element of the Patriarchy. The cartoonist is sending one of his characters to go after the creator of fembots. There's at the minimum an argument to be made that it has feminist linkings.

Later on in the month, when she hisses at the Fembot sexy poster, would you label that as having no feminism in it? I placed that one in the feminist category.


I'm more than willing to put a category next to each day's strip, but probably without linking the strips since a thread with 30 strips would be a bit much. I'll supply my rationale for it as well. It will just have to wait for Monday.


Actually, I didn't post all of the fembot strips because of space. You stated in the post I had responded to "labeling the fembot strips as non feminist is wrong, in my opinion." That implied that you labeled all fembot strips as feminist. It is good to know you at least skipped one of them.

I honestly can't believe that you label the second one as feminist. It doesn't matter whether the Devil Corp is a major element of the Patriarchy. They are not the Patriarchy. The author is not sending a character to attack the patriarchy. Motivation matters here. I've got no clue what point you are trying to make with the comparison to history books and watching live. An analysis of the works clearly shows what the motivation for revenge is. Any linking to feminism is weak at best, and then only because of who her target is. However, since her motivations are linked to something entirely different this is not an example of feminism.

On the fembot poster, I could see how it would be perceived as having a feminist message. An argument could be made that there is a statement about the objectification of women in the poster, giving this a feminism tone. I considered placing it in the implied category because of that. Once again, however, we've got to examine her motivations and the actual message that the strip conveys in relation to her story. It conveys her anger at the treatment of herself and the other automaton. This is straight after they sent an assassin after her, one which they were forcing to come after her and then destroyed when it disobeyed. The tipping factor for me was the tag line on the poster "Total Control". It speaks to the struggle in her story, it is about freedom and fighting against the people attempting to take that freedom away. It is a very common theme among fiction where artificial life gains sentience.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2717
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
I bet that by OklahomaSun's logic, Sucker Punch is a feminist film.


Urgh, thanks for reminding me of that shit. When I saw the poster I thought that this could be the most awesome movie ever and it turned into pure crap because someone couldn't keep their hard-on away from the plot.
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