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2014/May/01 - I WANNA WIN!
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6573

PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, at any rate, I think transwomen belong in women's safe spaces just as much as any other women. I'm not gunna police your woman-hood and I don't think most of the regulars at Sinfest will, either.

I am definitely a fan of beautifully colored games, but at the same time I'm completely obsessed with Skyrim right now which tends to get a lot of shit for being all shades of brown and not much else. It's kinda funny though, now that I have it on the PC* I kept getting distracted by the sky. The first time it had the northern lights going I was like "WHAT WHEN DID THIS GAME BECOME BEAUTIFUL AAAAH" moment. Then it was cloudy for an in-game week and I was like "ah yes, this is the skyrim I remember."

*I have a problem and that problem is steam sales. it made sense; i got the expansions for a really cheap price and the load times on the pc are so much better than on the xbox.
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Posts: 711

PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One day at a time, Samsally. And watch out for Humble Bundles, too, they're a gateway sale... ;-D

Couple of minor points from the last few posts I'd like to pick up on - firstly, on the "women's safe spaces", I think the importance is on the "safe space" aspect more than any particular gender. Hell, defining gender is problematic enough for a start, so in my limited experience, they tend to be cool for anyone who needs a safe space when they need it - as long as they're not screwing it up for anyone else.

That last bit can cover a whole can of worms, but... they ought to be open to those who need it. I wouldn't kick out anyone transitioning either way, or just non-identifying, or whatever, if they just needed to be in a safe space for a while.

Second - on the hypothetical feminists being mad at a female Wheatley but not the male version thing - yeah, some would. But probably not most. It's about equality, after all. The whole "men are bumbling stupid oafs" thing that seems to be going around is just as depressing for characterising people by their gender.
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Midnight Tea



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 202
Location: In the Haunted Lands

PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, safe space is indeed hard to define concretely despite being very necessary even in the modern world. It's why transpeople do need to be understanding if they're being excluded, even if it's on a technical ground. Ideally they shouldn't be but we don't live in an ideal world. It comes down to what the safe space is for, who it's for and so on. There's no one-size-fits-all and I daresay actually being a woman shouldn't necessarily be the most important criteria for inclusion.

(in my own little online friend circles of freaks and geeks we're more than happy to exclude people who emotionally immature or just flat out crazy without thinking twice about it -- regardless of their age, race, gender, whatever.)

Anyways, regardless of whether I should expect it, I'm still always very happy if I'm ever allowed to be a part of the pajama party and recognize it as a gesture of trust.


I think Skyrim has always been gorgeous. It's one of those games that uses the gray/brown sort of coloring to great effect in my opinion. I'll even go so far as to say Fallout does too. Then again I felt that way even as far back as Morrowind, which compensated with a semi-surreal fantasy environment and architecture. Either way it's totally easy to get lost in those worlds. Serana is also one of my favorite alltime characters, too.
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Hekateras



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hydro wrote:
I recently read scholarly research on video games that claimed the female market is as much as 43%, and that video games are starting to be made with that demographic in mind.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I'm just saying, female gamers are not rare unicorns and we want to win too!

*Sorry, checked my research and got the wrong number.

Goode, S., & Kartas, A. (2012). Exploring software piracy as a factor of video game console adoption. Behaviour & Information Technology, 31(6), 547-563. doi:10.1080/0144929X.2010.501154


Ugh, just ugh. I once saw an Escapist forum thread going all cuckoo over that research and the most prominent reaction was "they probably all just play Bejewelled or something, they're not *real* gamers", which devolved into a debate about elitism and what real gamers are. Women: giving men an existential crisis just by doing the same things they do.

Personally, even if most of these women *do* just play Farmville or Bejeweled... dude, you have to ask yourself what's wrong with your industry, if someone would rather play *Bejeweled* rather than the newest Assassin's Creed.*

(*I wouldn't go that far myself, but the newest main series protagonist of Unity is apparently going to be a dude yet *again*, if only because there have been rumours that the part *after* it would feature a woman and I don't believe they'd do two women in a row, and yeah, I've seen comments about boycotting the series because of that. It is a little disappointing. Like Doctor Who all over again. And Unity takes place in France during the French Revolution, too... talk about a setting uniquely suited to a female - or, hell, gender-ambiguous, Chevalier d'Eon-style - protagonist wrapped up in courtly intrigue. Bleh, talk about wasted potential. >.<)

@Yinello: I second the 'you are awesome' bit and will dig through those links as well when I'm not dropping with exhaustion after a tiring weekend con. -_-
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes it makes me sad that the only games I'm legitimately good at are Mario games.

Like, nobody is impressed when you're good at Mario. Even the side-scroller one where you can have four people playing at once: they just give up after the first half a level after you purposely get them killed enough times in a row. (because they are babies, presumably.)

I'm still moderately hopeless in anything FPS. I mean. It doesn't stop me from playing Skyrim or anything, I just put it on easy and say to hell with it. But then I live up to the stereotype that girls 'aren't as good' or whatever and it's frustrating because I don't want to feel guilty for -how i play a game to destress- ugh.
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's nothing wrong with just playing games for fun. Thing is, that can be a bit tricky in online stuff, where hugely competitive players can dominate games to the point where it's difficult to play them just for a laugh.

So I mostly stick to single player stuff, or multiplayer stuff that's either co-op or played with a bunch of known, safe friends who have the same attitude as I do. And in, say, Left 4 Dead 2, I won't grab a sniper rifle and run round laying waste to high-difficulty-level foes with lightning-reflex-headshots. I'll crank the difficulty down, grab a shotgun to wave about in an imprecise manner, and gleefully leap on the grenade launcher at every opportunity before making pretty much everything explode.

This doesn't make me any less of a 'gamer', or indeed any less good than other players when I'm actually trying. But it does mean that I'm just not going to enjoy online competitive games where beating the opposition or "pwning n00bs" is the order of the day.

Oh, and kudos for being good with platform games. I'm usually rubbish, especially when it comes to precise jumps or, god help me, time pressure...
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally, I suck at Mario. xD I've never really been top tier with any game to be honest. The competitive scene is just not for me.

Oh wait, I'm good at making outfits in Guild Wars 2, does that count?

Quote:
Personally, even if most of these women *do* just play Farmville or Bejeweled... dude, you have to ask yourself what's wrong with your industry, if someone would rather play *Bejeweled* rather than the newest Assassin's Creed.*


Hekateras, that's a brilliant question and I love you for asking it. On what basis is it acceptable for game developers to deliberately exclude paying players? Sure, you can never win them all but when you truly start cutting others off just for the sake of hoping to win your market over (what market? the douchey guys who make fun of women?)...
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Midnight Tea



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First person shooters are kind of difficulty to learn, but it's like riding a bike. Once you know how to do in them, you'll always know how to do them. I can't speak to analog aiming -- I'm absolutely horrible at that because it feels like trying to fill out a tax return with rollerskates on your elbows. But with a mouse it's all about adjusting sensitivity to where you need it to be (rule of thumb: should be sensitive enough you can instantly spin around 180 but otherwise as low as you can get away with) and learning the ability to shoot with your unconscious mind.

In fact, "focusing" your "aim" is probably the surest way to not succeed at an FPS. It's all instinct. And honestly, I only ever got good at it thanks to untold hours in Borderlands. I could probably learn advanced astrophysics if they attached a level-up bar and phat lewtz to it.


I kind of lose patience with many platform games because of how much of it is about precise timing and the Mario games in particular can often feel kind slippery to me -- at least the 3D ones do. I did manage to beat Super Meat Boy though, but it helps that its levels are usually less than 20 seconds long.


Quote:
Personally, even if most of these women *do* just play Farmville or Bejeweled... dude, you have to ask yourself what's wrong with your industry, if someone would rather play *Bejeweled* rather than the newest Assassin's Creed.*


Trufax yo.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, and with Mario it's very much a matter of playing by 'feel' for me? I'm not all that precise. Like half the time I killed off the other guys it was just because I was like "OH SHIT JUMP TO NEAREST SURFACE" and I ended up jumping on their heads (causing them to fall down the pit instead of me.)

The 3D games definitely have a different set of challenges (UGH FLOATY BLOCKS WHY) but I dunno, maybe it's just tenacity that makes me think I'm good? Even when I die eight times in a row, I've got a hundred lives by then. I think that's just cuz they really got generous with the 1ups when they realized how freaking hard some of those levels are, even for people who are good at the game.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't feel bad if mario bro's is what you're best at, it apparently puts you in rare company.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They also wanted a deeper storyline and voice acting.

*SNORT*
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Sam



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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe women stick with casual gaming because 'hardcore' gamers actively or passively gatekeep and alternate between criticizing and fetishizing girl gamers in a way which kind of excludes them from being comfortable in a lot of gamer spaces

hmm
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Midnight Tea



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
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Location: In the Haunted Lands

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
maybe women stick with casual gaming because 'hardcore' gamers actively or passively gatekeep and alternate between criticizing and fetishizing girl gamers in a way which kind of excludes them from being comfortable in a lot of gamer spaces

hmm


It's definitely also confused by the "girl gamers" who both enjoyed the attention and would reciprocate the flirting. That's always going to be one of the odd areas feminism has to compensate for -- there are women (many of whom are decent people, same as the rest fo us) who do definitely enjoy the gender tension and don't want that dynamic to go away.

Part of the issue is that on the internet, a lot of women learned that there is a really easy way to turn off the gender interplay button; go anonymous and people will treat you as a human being, no more or less. Which of course happened enough that it became widely believed there are no girls on the internet or playing games. It's a vicious cycle.

It's really dumb because at the end of the day, minor anatomy differences accounts for very very little when it comes to sick kill streaks or participating in fascinating lore and universes.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no as a male gamer i have the upper body strength to lift the huge xbox 1 controller and thus am superiorer at gaming. SORRY LADIES, IT'S JUST BIOTRUTHS
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean, I don't know what's so bad with people flirting over shit they both enjoy though? Like, how does that in any way diminish their geekiness?

Here, anecdotal story time. Because reasons.

When I was dating ass-face, one of our happy fun couples bonding activities was tabletop role playing. Anyway, our group was actually a college club, so it pretty much consisted of literally whoever decided to show up.

One of the group members was a woman who could pretty much epitomize the 'fake geek girl' tropes. Like, rumor had it she slept with pretty much everybody (particularly if she could get them to do her comp sci homework for her). She was constantly seen with a new guy on her arm. She wore super low cut shirts and would lean down a lot and obviously seriously enjoyed making people uncomfortable in public.

She was the one ass-face cheated on me with, so no matter my personal feelings towards promiscuity*, I have zero reasons to like or defend her.

Thing is, she fucking loved tabletop rpgs. She loved magic the gathering, too, and was constantly playing both.

Why the fuck is she less of a geek? I mean, don't get me wrong, there was a time in my life I was so angry with her I would have probably punched her in the face, consequences be damned.

... but I will argue until I turn blue and die that she isn't a 'fake geek girl'. She was a geek and she was an asshole. These things are not mutually exclusive.

*the "why the fuck is sleeping around so bad anyway" argument can wait for another day.
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