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2014/May/01 - I WANNA WIN!
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3315

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:








... but I will argue until I turn blue and die that she isn't a 'fake geek girl'. She was a geek and she was an asshole. These things are not mutually exclusive.



Trufax: I've met more despicable people and assholes in 10 years in the gaming community than I have working at a dive bar for the last 10 years.
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Midnight Tea



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
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Location: In the Haunted Lands

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Trufax: I've met more despicable people and assholes in 10 years in the gaming community than I have working at a dive bar for the last 10 years.


Agreed, though I actually have a rather taboo opinion on this.

I think modern game design does almost everything it can to nurture the budding stinkflower that is the asshole. It's not just the violent games thing, though it does contribute -- not all people who enjoy Saints Row games (including myself) are stimulation-craving misanthropes, but it's fair to say most stimulation-craving misanthropes would enjoy Saints Row.

But that games actually nurture the budding asshole by providing a fantasy where you're the most important in the world. So many games will profusely kiss your ass as the chosen one, the commander, the only hope left for humanity. You would think MMOs would get away from that but no, in many games every single of the thousands to millions of players gets to be the one foretold by legend. This is a siren song to people with entitlement issues to come together with people who have entitlement issues.

So yeah, already a Blighttown in the making without adding sexual tension to the mix.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Midnight Tea wrote:
So yeah, already a Blighttown in the making without adding sexual tension to the mix.

Approves Dark Souls reference. Kinda addicted to the game for a while.
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Midnight Tea



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:

Approves Dark Souls reference. Kinda addicted to the game for a while.

Was on my mind as I wrote that up.

If you buy into that whole "Chosen Undead" flattery you'll get at some point without question (like one would in any other game) you'll definitely get burned.
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Midnight Tea wrote:
Leohan wrote:

Approves Dark Souls reference. Kinda addicted to the game for a while.

Was on my mind as I wrote that up.

If you buy into that whole "Chosen Undead" flattery you'll get at some point without question (like one would in any other game) you'll definitely get burned.


But what if I *WISH* to be grossly incandescent? \o/
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the 'Chosen Undead' thing is bullshit from the serpent, anyway. Will take any promising undead and tell them that it's their fate to go and kindle the flame. Now move, my pawn!

Even if you were the Chosen Undead, though, it's not as important as it looks? Because as soon as you use online you know that you are just fighting the bosses and doing the story of your world and there's plenty other Chosen Undeads all over the place doing the same thing as you.


I haven't had trouble with the community, myself. Perhaps because the online experience doesn't need much immersion.

Felgraf wrote:
But what if I *WISH* to be grossly incandescent? \o/

Be wary of red eyed bugs, sunbro.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chiming in a bit late on the subject but I like to flirt so now and then, just for fun. Usually it's a go with the flow thing when my guildies and I are chatting on teamspeak.

I don't believe there are any fake geeks at all. You've simply got people who are new and curious or those who happen to think the merchandise looks cool. For both parties I would love to introduce them further so they can explore the wonderful world of geekdom.

Also the whole trying to get guys thing doesn't seem so bad to me. Once a guy came over to me with a D&D set because he thought it would be a good way to break the ice. It was until he confessed and said he had no clue how to play D&D, he just got the dice to get to know me. I thought it was quite lovely of him to make an effort for me like that plus the willingness to get into a game I loved. You'd think for a group that constantly complains there are not enough girls in their games (read: no girlfriend), they'd love it if they got approached this way?
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Midnight Tea



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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly, Yinello -- gender interplay and sexual tension can be turned into something productive and beautiful if the right people are involved, even among relative strangers. That's something some people seem to be afraid that feminism wants to threaten. It depends on the feminist, really, since some do label the whole thing as "rape culture" but I'm a firm believer in not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Though not everyone wants to play that game and the fact that women are expected to by default -- rarely ever able to truly be "one of the guys", the undercurrent is still there -- is what the major issue is. I think it got to be an issue in online and gaming culture precisely because for the first time, girls and women have a killswitch in the form of anonymity. With that sort of anonymity becoming an endangered species though in today's internet, I think a lot of women aren't eager to go back to the world when it was no longer an option to be able to drop your gender. That's a major reason I think feminism is becoming a major thing in some circles. They definitely deserve to keep that killswitch in some form.


(Incidentally, my story is similar -- I wasn't one of those people who insisted they were different from childhood onward. It didn't come until my late teens. When I experienced a rush of emotions and everything just being right when I was a female character in various online games -- some of which didn't have significant graphical interfaces to speak of, so it's not just the dress-up barbie doll thing -- that my heart yearned for that persona to be the real me.)
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:


Felgraf wrote:
But what if I *WISH* to be grossly incandescent? \o/

Be wary of red eyed bugs, sunbro.


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Yinello



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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys stop making me sad that I don't play Dark Souls (yet)
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Midnight Tea



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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Sorry about this Yinello, but it's on my mind too)

In the past I've used Dark Souls to illustrate a point about toxic gender relationships. Contrary to popular belief, it's not really a hard game by the strictest definition of the word. Dark Souls doesn't actually demand the sort of twitch reflexes that some games do. In fact being too twitchy will kill you as often as it saves you. The issue is that gamers are used to games that, as a default, are servile to the player. The game world exists for you. You're the chosen one. Only you can save the day. You have to burn the rope etc. the game world is made for you.

Here's the interesting thing -- that has a parallel in how some men see women. In particular, esp. christian fundamentalists who believe women were created primarily as their companions or sidekick at best.

To cut to the chase -- Dark Souls (both the original and sequel) demands that you respect it. You go in there like you would with some games, put your feet up and expect it to serve your whims, then of course it'll kick your ass and leave you in the gutter. Going into the game with the expectation you can or will eventually "beat" it will not turn out well for you. You were lucky to beat any games in the 80's and 90's, it shouldn't be an expectation here either.
However if you go as slow as you can stand, take in everything you find and every time you sit down your main goal is to come to know the game better, one will quickly find that Dark Souls is not at all shy with its rewards. Since it's necessarily a condensed "metroidvania" style RPG, it's very dense with item pickups and other goodies and you'll be tripping all over rewards and shinies if you're not in the habit of repeatedly dying.


But yeah -- because Dark Souls is a proper lady, she gets an undeserved reputation as a mean-spirited prude who enjoys player frustration and resentment when there's a whole lot more to her than that*. Respect Dark Souls and it'll respect you back.

(Aside from certainly really badly designed spots like the Capra Demon, but no game is perfect.)



* Sun-loving reverse-vampires who instead are able to cling to life and humanity by helping people? Yes please.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
Guys stop making me sad that I don't play Dark Souls (yet)

Sorry for any spoiler you might have gotten over this Sad

It's a really great game. As Midnight says, it's harsh but really rewarding. Playing the NG+ and realizing how your better understanding of the world and mechanics affects your performance is very satisfying.

Even though some things are impossible to know without a walkthrough, but that's details I guess.



My strategy for the Capra Demon: Go up the stairs, wait for the dogs to climb, get rid of those and then fight normally. Fucking dogs.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always been kind of confused with MMORPGs on that front. Like, okay. You've got a bajillion people all playing one game -together-... and the main storyline is like every other video game ever. So every one of those bajillion people is the 'chosen savior' at the same time.

It sort of breaks the immersion for me, you know? Like, why can't they make the main storylines actually representative of the multitudes of people playing? So it doesn't seem so weird when you're told to collect fifty cybershark teeth and you can't fucking find any because the area is so bloated with other players they need to camp over dead sharks just to hope to get one. Write that shit into the fucking story. Let us kill each other and loot shark teeth off the corpses, I mean -whatever- just don't pretend we're all the goddamned chosen one while we chum around with every other chosen one.

It would be more immersive and it would probably force the writers into breaking out of some very tired story-telling molds.
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Istancow



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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of all the gamers who demand wish-fulfillment in their games, I'm probably the worst sort.

I play sandbox games alone.

I've logged more hours into Garry's Mod (mostly singleplayer) than any other game on Steam.

Now this is partially because all the addons I stuff the game with extend loading time, and whenever the game crashes I have to reload everything, but more to the point...

I've spent what equates to several days of my life throwing props around, making forts, blowing up npcs I've spawned, crashing cars, flying about exploring maps, and making machines in absolute solitude.

And it's so much fun.
If it's wish-fulfillment, then I have a god complex.

(edit: And don't get me started on Minecraft!)
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
I've always been kind of confused with MMORPGs on that front. Like, okay. You've got a bajillion people all playing one game -together-... and the main storyline is like every other video game ever. So every one of those bajillion people is the 'chosen savior' at the same time.

It sort of breaks the immersion for me, you know? Like, why can't they make the main storylines actually representative of the multitudes of people playing? So it doesn't seem so weird when you're told to collect fifty cybershark teeth and you can't fucking find any because the area is so bloated with other players they need to camp over dead sharks just to hope to get one. Write that shit into the fucking story. Let us kill each other and loot shark teeth off the corpses, I mean -whatever- just don't pretend we're all the goddamned chosen one while we chum around with every other chosen one.

It would be more immersive and it would probably force the writers into breaking out of some very tired story-telling molds.


Darksouls actually DOES do a good job of explaining it. While not exactly an mmo, the best way I can describe it is thus:

Basically, the flow of time in the land you're in is... weird and screwy. Generally this is due to earthshattering magics that have been worked there: It's basically taken reality and gone "FUCK YO CAUSILTY" *Table flip*. Because of this, each 'undead' is... *basically* in their own 'timeline'. You can place symbols that lets other people temporarily summon you to their timeline (or them to yours). You can also 'invade' other people's timelines, and slay them for your own benefit. (Conversely, there is actually a set of 'covenants' whose soul purpose is to aid those who do NOT want PVP. Join the "Protect me" Covenant, and in theory folks from a "Protector" covenant will be summoned to your world should you be invaded.)

Furthermore, there's not really a lot of voice communication. So you have people joining each other's worlds, and silently aiding them (With a few in-game gestures), and it's.. a really good feeling, I guess?

I love joining a world and helping smash a boss the person was having trouble with. Especially by spamming Sunlight Sphere. Likewise, it's nice to summon help against a particularly challenging boss.
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