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May 7: Uh oh...
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

exactly. absolutely nothing to suggest this is in any way related to being in the ghetto. except in the minds of certain people who are totally not racist. even if the first thing they think when they hear about a black woman trying to hail a cab is "are you crazy? the ghetto is way too dangerous a place for cab drivers! no way she should expect to get a cab!"

these people apparently do not know the meaning of the word "fantasy".
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Timpie



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
exactly. absolutely nothing to suggest this is in any way related to being in the ghetto. except in the minds of certain people who are totally not racist. even if the first thing they think when they hear about a black woman trying to hail a cab is "are you crazy? the ghetto is way too dangerous a place for cab drivers! no way she should expect to get a cab!"

these people apparently do not know the meaning of the word "fantasy".


Well, it's not really fantasy since OklahomanSun's story comes from reality. I apologise though, I've only had that story in mind, not really what the comic was about. He gave a lot more to work with then Clio did.
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diagram12345



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
OklahomanSun wrote:

1: I never assumed that Clio lives in a ghetto. I've actually discussed this exact issue with Hussan and other black friends, as a matter of fact, and the truth is that the issue in question comes up almost invariably in or very near a ghetto. If you are black in a "normal" area you can often get a cab, as far as I can tell from anecdotal evidence. So when I addressed this strip, I'm referring to the real situation and where it happens, rather than a cartoon character making a generalised reference to an issue.


if you never assumed that clio lives in a ghetto, why did your entire response consist of stories about how dangerous it was driving into a ghetto for business purposes? you say black people can "often" get a cab in "normal" areas. i'm white, and i _always_ get a cab. did you stop to wonder why white people always get cabs, and black people (even by your own account) don't - even in places where this is no reason to fear crime? (and read the story Moor linked before you answer)

and even if it is because she lives in a ghetto - did you stop to think how she was being penalized just because of that? you say yourself, you ran the numbers, 99% of the time you knew you weren't going to get robbed. that means, when your business decided to stop delivering there, 99% of your customers were denied a service, through no fault of their own.


I find it frightening that you think that the safety of delivery people is less important than the ability for people to get food delivered to them.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SO this is about 5 years old now, but being black, or any non-white, and trying to get a taxi cab in the US is most definitely an issue:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/race-cab-hailing-ride-black-white/story?id=7223511

Quote:
It's a highly publicized issue with a highly visible face. Nearly a decade ago, actor Danny Glover took on the New York City Taxi and Limousine Commission, saying five yellow cabs in a single day refused to stop for him because he was black.

"I don't expect to have a taxi. I've been conditioned to think that someone is not going to stop for me," Glover said of the racial profiling incident.

His formal complaint sparked a nationwide debate about subtle and not so subtle racism in public places like on city streets, in restaurants and shopping malls.


So this case really started over 25 years ago, but it really started hundreds of yeas ago and is still going strong.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diagram12345 wrote:
mouse wrote:
OklahomanSun wrote:

1: I never assumed that Clio lives in a ghetto. I've actually discussed this exact issue with Hussan and other black friends, as a matter of fact, and the truth is that the issue in question comes up almost invariably in or very near a ghetto. If you are black in a "normal" area you can often get a cab, as far as I can tell from anecdotal evidence. So when I addressed this strip, I'm referring to the real situation and where it happens, rather than a cartoon character making a generalised reference to an issue.


if you never assumed that clio lives in a ghetto, why did your entire response consist of stories about how dangerous it was driving into a ghetto for business purposes? you say black people can "often" get a cab in "normal" areas. i'm white, and i _always_ get a cab. did you stop to wonder why white people always get cabs, and black people (even by your own account) don't - even in places where this is no reason to fear crime? (and read the story Moor linked before you answer)

and even if it is because she lives in a ghetto - did you stop to think how she was being penalized just because of that? you say yourself, you ran the numbers, 99% of the time you knew you weren't going to get robbed. that means, when your business decided to stop delivering there, 99% of your customers were denied a service, through no fault of their own.


I find it frightening that you think that the safety of delivery people is less important than the ability for people to get food delivered to them.


and it doesn't occur to you that _both_ situations are bad? i agree, delivery people should be safe. i happen to think black people should be safe also, and should be able to get food and the occasional cab ride.

there are many ways to make clio's fantasy come true. it doesn't have to start and end with "keep the delivery people safe, and screw all the innocents". yes, the safety of the delivery people is important. what you want to ignore is that there are other people in this situation who matter as well.

unless, of course, you think those who live in ghettos don't actually count as people....
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OklahomanSun



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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I've since then moved out of America and lived in various places in and around England and Europe, I can tell you that I have no answer to the racism.

I do have a solution to the taxi problem, however.


Transportation infrastructure. We shouldn't even have to use taxis. The only people in London that use taxis are ludicrously rich people and tourists. The buses and the Underground will get you anywhere and everyone uses it.


And just to recap. I'm not a racist. You know essentially nothing about me but if you did, you'd know that.
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Istancow



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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, I'm not certain anyone is actually trying to call you a racist.
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Midnight Tea



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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Istancow wrote:
You know, I'm not certain anyone is actually trying to call you a racist.

The lady doth protests too much, methinks.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Istancow wrote:
You know, I'm not certain anyone is actually trying to call you a racist.


no, i pretty much was exactly calling him a racist.

and now i'm calling him fantasy-impaired. and also completely missing the point that clio just wants to be treated EXACTLY LIKE EVERYONE ELSE in whatever way current reality treats people.

it's not really a strip about US failure to embrace sensible public transportation options. or even about the dangers inherent in driving a cab.
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OklahomanSun



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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
Istancow wrote:
You know, I'm not certain anyone is actually trying to call you a racist.


no, i pretty much was exactly calling him a racist.

and now i'm calling him fantasy-impaired. and also completely missing the point that clio just wants to be treated EXACTLY LIKE EVERYONE ELSE in whatever way current reality treats people.

it's not really a strip about US failure to embrace sensible public transportation options. or even about the dangers inherent in driving a cab.


Well, thanks for being clear so that everyone understands that I was responding to you calling me a racist.



Let me also be clear.

There is no such thing in the world as "everyone being treated like everyone else."


That thing does not exist. Since you used the phrase "fantasy impaired", let me just say that if you believe that is a thing that exists, you would be "fantasy overburdened."

The world is not an objective place. Everyone gets treated different. Every niggling little detail about a person plays into another person's perception and response to that person.

I don't know how much work I should even put into defending myself as not a racist any more, since you, in your attempt to be the defender, seem to be quite interested in ignoring anything I say in order to place me into a box that doesn't fit.

Can you tell me why none of the things I've said regarding my abhorrence for the way that minorities get treated has any impact on your opinion on me? Could it be that you've formed an opinion that will not now be swayed by anything other than your internal bias?

I'm shocked at that.



As I've said before, when the strip was mentioned, I was referring not to the specific situation of Clio standing on a curb getting passed by, but the larger situation whereby racial profiling does play a terrible part in people's lives, and how that affects everyone. I mentioned clearly that it sucks that people have difficulty getting services. I mentioned where the stereotype originates, from the high crime areas in which there might be some validity to reduced service for safety, and I freely admit that the stereotype then malignantly drifts until people in all areas of the city of a certain race will find themselves having difficulty getting a cab.


You, on the other hand, even though I and several others have commented on this, seem to have absolutely no inclination to discuss the violence perpetrated on taxi drivers and other service drivers. You haven't addressed the fact that it's the 5th deadliest profession in the entire country.
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khan



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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Midnight Tea wrote:
Istancow wrote:
You know, I'm not certain anyone is actually trying to call you a racist.

The lady doth protests too much, methinks.


there is that saying... 90% of the time when you feel the urge to clarify "I'm not racist" you are in fact saying something racist. Totes leaved you a 10% margin though, so its probably cool.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OklahomanSun wrote:
You, on the other hand, even though I and several others have commented on this, seem to have absolutely no inclination to discuss the violence perpetrated on taxi drivers and other service drivers. You haven't addressed the fact that it's the 5th deadliest profession in the entire country.

That's an awfully significant amount of people dying driving cabs. Got a link, or did you just ask your black friends about it? Or was that Geareye? I don't even really remember.

But anywho it sounds like you're talking about professional drivers as a whole, but I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure most data is going to come back to either this link or one of the sublinks from it: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cfoi.nr0.htm

Also just to add some fuel, Americans still really have a lot of issues with race and discrimination, even in passive aggressive forms.
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OklahomanSun



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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
OklahomanSun wrote:
You, on the other hand, even though I and several others have commented on this, seem to have absolutely no inclination to discuss the violence perpetrated on taxi drivers and other service drivers. You haven't addressed the fact that it's the 5th deadliest profession in the entire country.

That's an awfully significant amount of people dying driving cabs. Got a link, or did you just ask your black friends about it? Or was that Geareye? I don't even really remember.

But anywho it sounds like you're talking about professional drivers as a whole, but I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure most data is going to come back to either this link or one of the sublinks from it: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cfoi.nr0.htm

Also just to add some fuel, Americans still really have a lot of issues with race and discrimination, even in passive aggressive forms.


The Bureau of Labor Statistics is the primary source for information on the safety levels of jobs, and I'd also point out that the study you linked addresses fatal job incidents. The incidents I mentioned at my job were no fatal, so would you be willing to take a job as a manager in my old store and tell people "Well, yes, you were shot AT, but you weren't really shot, were you? I don't see any reason to stop going to that area."


Just on homicides alone, you can look at the numbers all over the BLS like here http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf and in older data to look at trends over time here http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfar0020.pdf and see that for delivery drivers and taxi drivers, they are near the top for homicides.



Since you asked me to clarify my position, may I know yours? Are you saying that these jobs aren't among the most dangerous, among the most likely to experience homicide and attempted homicide, to say nothing of armed robbery?

If you're making that claim, may I know where you find any information to support that?
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still see nothing that says driving a cab is the fifth deadliest job . . . in 2012, you know, where recent data is from. Not 1995 data.

Also, you might want to do more research . . . most of those cab fatalities were in rural settings where you're about four times more likely to be held up i.e. the cab is called to come pick a person up as opposed to waving it down.

The race issue is about picked-up fares in metropolitan areas.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least according to 2007 data, for the United States cab work was I think the 11th most deadly job on record. Above it was refuse and recyclable material collection, driver/sales workers and truck drivers. All three are due to the issue of the overall danger of vehicular transit plus the sheer amount of time all three professions spend on the road in proxy to the potential for vehicular collision. It's not about your fare being a danger. Since, you know, trash collectors aren't in the habit of picking up passengers, last I checked.

So it's about, you know, physics (a car hits another car, momentum results in trauma, etc) as opposed to anything pertaining to feeling safe that you picked up a black guy instead of a white guy. Unless, I guess, black people have some special sort of magical magnetic property that attracts out of control cars towards your cab? In which case nevermind.
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