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2014-05-16: Did you Know Her 2
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tricksterson



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 470

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pf this was meant to undermine Slick's trauma, then no. Neither he nor Squigs nor, probably Roguebot knew it wasn't loaded. Nor, in the first two cases did they have any reason not to believe it was loaded.
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OklahomanSun



Joined: 16 Mar 2014
Posts: 369

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
Rune wrote:
It reads to me as an inversion of the 'emotional-woman, logical-man" trope, though not a very nuanced one. Xanthe is taking a reasoned and logical approach to assess the actual danger of the situation while Slick is freaking out, (whether it's legit feels or attention seeking, doesn't matter to the trope.)

How often do you see the reverse play out, when it's the female character who had a brush with death and is freaked out by it (which is humanly understandable, but is included simply to contrast to:) and the bad-ass male hero takes the detached/analytical/competent role?

How that reads differently, and the conclusions that people jump to when seeing it (that may or may not overlook details present, ahem,) and how those are different to reactions to the more common trope, are worth examining.


Maybe, but.. it still doesn't entirely work?

I mean, even if Slick had been logical, there wouldn't have been any way for him to figure out it wasn't loaded when he had it shoved under his nose.

/plus.. weren't a lot of people *just* talking about how 'disturbed' they were that slick *didn't* seem to initially be reacting emotionally?



You're missing the secret.

There are some people here who want to believe they're thinking logically, but are really operating under a pretty strong bias.

That's why they paint Slick's behaviour as bad and then Xanthe's exceptionally similiar behaviour as good, " rational and logical."
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1055

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tricksterson wrote:
Pf this was meant to undermine Slick's trauma, then no. Neither he nor Squigs nor, probably Roguebot knew it wasn't loaded. Nor, in the first two cases did they have any reason not to believe it was loaded.


When the trope is played straight, it very often does have the effect of undermining or exploiting the trauma experienced by the female character. I'm not saying this is a good thing, or that it's good in-story for Xanthe to do that to Slick, if that's what's happening.

I am saying that as a matter of writing, inverting the trope like that can highlight what the trope contains to people who take the straight trope for granted (because we see it that way all the time so most people don't even think about it.)

Yes, it's a problem when one character's trauma is downplayed in order to make another character seem more rational, level-headed, in-control, or cool. It's even more of a problem when a particular class of person is frequently diminished that way. We see that happen at the expense of female characters for the narrative benefit of male characters all the time. (The narrative that manly men are always hyper-logical and don't feel or react to things is its own problem inherent in this, too.)

So, congrats! You feel sympathy for Slick in this situation! Really, congrats, you are not completely devoid of human sympathies. Maybe you can budget some of that indignation for the next time you see the exact same thing happen to a female character where you've never noticed it before.
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1103
Location: Hel

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every gun is loaded until you personally have clearly seen that no round is chambered or about to be chambered.

I still believe Slick has been genuinely traumatized by this whole event. Being threatened with loss of cranial matter (and life) at gunpoint is not pleasant.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
How often do you see the reverse play out, when it's the female character who had a brush with death and is freaked out by it (which is humanly understandable, but is included simply to contrast to:) and the bad-ass male hero takes the detached/analytical/competent role?

...Dunno. Does that happen often with a situation like this?

I think undermining someone's problem due to information the other one can't access would universally be perceived as negative.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
Rune wrote:
How often do you see the reverse play out, when it's the female character who had a brush with death and is freaked out by it (which is humanly understandable, but is included simply to contrast to:) and the bad-ass male hero takes the detached/analytical/competent role?

...Dunno. Does that happen often with a situation like this?

I think undermining someone's problem due to information the other one can't access would universally be perceived as negative.


Often enough, and usually with a side-helping of condescending blame for them not being capable of accessing the hidden information, like their ignorance of it is a burdensome flaw. Keep your media-literacy eyes open. Action flicks and kids shows (especially, but not only, slightly older ones) are especially prone to fall into this.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Leohan wrote:
Rune wrote:
How often do you see the reverse play out, when it's the female character who had a brush with death and is freaked out by it (which is humanly understandable, but is included simply to contrast to:) and the bad-ass male hero takes the detached/analytical/competent role?

...Dunno. Does that happen often with a situation like this?

I think undermining someone's problem due to information the other one can't access would universally be perceived as negative.


Often enough, and usually with a side-helping of condescending blame for them not being capable of accessing the hidden information, like their ignorance of it is a burdensome flaw. Keep your media-literacy eyes open. Action flicks and kids shows (especially, but not only, slightly older ones) are especially prone to fall into this.

Will do. Thanks!
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta say I think it was cheap that either the robot was incompetent that she didn't know a gun needs bullets to work (that computer brain can get weird emotions like rage and everything but bullet in gun is beyond her?) or that they were just going to scare Milton in the most ineffective way possible.

Though if it was just incompetence, kinda glad the Devil Drones showed up when they did, gotta say I'd take killed by shotgun to head then enraged/frustrated robot beating me to death with the butt of a shotgun.
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