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hi i am a horrible nerd ask me anything about star wars
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OklahomanSun



Joined: 16 Mar 2014
Posts: 359

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khan wrote:
I think the important thing to remember about the unknown region is that it exists primarily as a plot device. Cuz the know galaxy just aint big enough... in the last map I saw, it looked closish to MAYBE 20%. But yeah, it was as big as plot needed it to be. And populated primarily with plotholes.

Couple loose end querries:
Wtf ever happened to the Corporate Sector? They buy a vsd fleet, and poof! Never heard of em since.

Did anyone ever deal with the Ssiruvi (spelling?)?

Did anyone ever explain why tech levels are simultaneously clearly stagnant for thousands of years (remember those blaster rifles in kotor? I miss blast rifles), yet we often have 'superadvanced' things like Blue Max? Also, in cannon from the z-95 or a cloakshape, we see massive improvements in not that many years. A type 2 xwing vs a cloakshape? Im less bothered by the tie/ln, since cannon explains that its sctually pretty competitive with any other current era subspace only snubfighter. It seems not unlike our development from bi-planes to jets, yet in sw it takes 10000 years to go from xzar kun era fighters to a z-95??

How does Xim and other early cannon fit in with the rakka, and why the fuck were they ever added?

Also, WHAT OF ZUCKKUS' LUNGS?! Heh, i loved that silly gand.


Can't answer to the others much, but the Ssi-Ruu make another appearance a bit past midway in the New Jedi Order. Essentially another power play for Bakura, it was in part monitored by the Vong and after they lost, they retreated back to their cluster again.

It's been explained basically that since they hardly ever venture out of their section of the Unknown Regions and since the New Republic isn't big on preemptive war, they just get left alone.

We don't know a ton about the Corporate Sector. It originally sounded big, but then got defined as about 30,000 systems, and when you consider that the Empire got defined as about 1.3 million systems, it ended up being relatively small. This is one of those areas where defining things really fucks things up, because then you've got the Hapes Consortium, which is usually considered a major force in the galaxy, and they've got only 63 star systems. Basically I throw up my hands in despair whenever someone tries to define the size of a galactic power group by systems. I tend to take the canon's viewpoint of their relative power rather than look at size, because different authors have borked the size of the galaxy too many times.

Anyway, Zsinj conquered it for awhile, it linked up with the Corellian system to fight the Galactic Alliance for awhile, but it's largely stayed out of the limelight. It's sort of like Switzerland. It just wants to make money.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khan wrote:

Couple loose end querries:
Wtf ever happened to the Corporate Sector? They buy a vsd fleet, and poof! Never heard of em since.


I am pretty sure nobody knew what to really do with the concept but kept it on backburner status just in case someone wanted to rehash the idea of a war against organized business interests. Stuff like the slave revolts and an invasion by supercreepy force-void aliens kind of put that in the whole ????? territory anyway

Quote:
Did anyone ever deal with the Ssiruvi (spelling?)?


oh the lolraptors? got fucked by a slave insurrection, I believe, then got lost in the vong madness. after being part of the vong madness in some way (the vong were like glitter, they got all over the place)

Quote:
Did anyone ever explain why tech levels are simultaneously clearly stagnant for thousands of years (remember those blaster rifles in kotor? I miss blast rifles), yet we often have 'superadvanced' things like Blue Max? Also, in cannon from the z-95 or a cloakshape, we see massive improvements in not that many years. A type 2 xwing vs a cloakshape? Im less bothered by the tie/ln, since cannon explains that its sctually pretty competitive with any other current era subspace only snubfighter. It seems not unlike our development from bi-planes to jets, yet in sw it takes 10000 years to go from xzar kun era fighters to a z-95??


this is something we can mostly lay at the feet of cinema and the (so far) intent to maintain consistent iconography. the original series really was an overwhelming iconographic success, and there's really no need to spruce up things like blasters and lightsabers.

i think of blasters like this: assume a thousand years from now nothing has come along which has supplanted the ready utility of firearms. like, we don't get lasers or plasma blasters or anything, it's still just a metal slug forced out of a barrel at high velocities with propellant. Which is, you know, entirely possible. The end result being that any and all developments in weapons design for personal armament has gone from revolutionary to incremental, and the incremental advancements really become more and more aesthetic and minute. In sum you have a handful of well known forms which are pretty much as good as firearms get, and you have versions which are designed around specific concerns (sandproofed firearms, firearms for moist or wet environments, firearms designed around minimum weight, more expensive firearms with rangefinders and all that, minimized weapon length designs, etc) but they've all become pretty iconic. You could point to weapons from relatively early on in modern weapons development and they'd look fairly similar in a lot of regards but you would recognize them as antiques. Like, you'd see an AK-47 and know it's from generations ago, but the basic functionality of the AK underlies the slugthrower you're using many hundreds of years later.

This is kind of how star wars played it, generally. Over the timeperiods involved there's little iterative improvements in weapon design and possibly a bleeding-edge enhancement of what prototype level technology can do, but blasters are sort of a Done Deal and mainly just branch into mostly but not entirely indistinct niches. Cost becomes the widest differentiator. You can have a better blaster, to be sure, but be ready to pay out the ass for it.

Lightsabers are the same way. We had all the revolutionary enhancements thouuuuusands of years ago (what with the old battery packs vanishing and all that) but the modern day lightsaber is a pretty ultimately stable design with an output and capacity largely dependent upon specific crystals used in construction (some rare ones are superpowered or w/e) and the force user's capacity for attunement.

then, of course, you get the weird parts of the books and comics and games where they portray specific things like starfighter design as being in a serious state of design advancement warfare. Like has been mentioned, you have ships of a still living era like the Headhunter being described as essentially obsolete throwbacks to the X-Wing. Where massive improvements and revolutions in starship design are happening, like, all the time and omg look at the Storm it is like the bestest spasechip ever, it has like superscience.

Man it is not known what is up with that, and I would largely expect for that tack to immediately fall by the wayside once the new movies reboot future canon. Until then, I would say that the way that technological advancement has been utilized in star wars has been the as-plot-demands treadmill of new more powerfuller superweapon. In general it hasn't been too horrible, with notable exceptions like the Sun Crusher — the plot hole so inescapably bad they threw it into a black hole. For all intents and purposes, pretend the Sun Crusher doesn't exist, never happened. The whole book series was a dream. One of the solo kids dropped acid for the first time and imagined the whole goddamned thing, it's nothing. Didn't happen.

Quote:
How does Xim and other early cannon fit in with the rakka, and why the fuck were they ever added?


Xim was a cool idea: a pirate king, a one-time epic war between his empire and the hutts, a lost treasure ship a la one piece, the romanticist ideation of an age of epic pirate empires and privateers.

The Rakka: wot is this I do not know???


Quote:
Also, WHAT OF ZUCKKUS' LUNGS?! Heh, i loved that silly gand.


Zuckuss breathed, what was it, methane? *consults ye olde wookiepedia* ... ammonia, o ok

Zuckuss and 4-LOM was a pretty neat and explorable concept in terms of bounty hunter buddy pairings. And Zuckuss was a rebel sympathizer and a force sensitive (though I would individually omit that point if Zuckuss gets a role in any of the new movies)

It would be a neat twist! You got this WEIRD ASS BUG THING and an EVIL BOUNTY HUNTER ROBOT .. very different 'others' and all that, very visually distinct and extremely alien, certainly easy to make look and seem sinister, but they surprise the viewers midway through the movie when it turns out they're working for the side of good.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OklahomanSun wrote:
Holy fucking god, can we simply assume at this point based on the fact that most of your Star Wars themed posts make reference to your hatred of the EU that you hate the EU and move on?

Or maybe you could make it your sig.

Because really, I think the point has been hammered home.


I am very sorry you are challenged by a strong statement of opinion about the EU!

And the point has apparently not been hammered home because I obviously don't hate the EU and could actually talk at considerable length about what I would want to save or repurpose for the reboot and what I do not want to see languish in the new Legacy alt-canon.

The actual point that is not 'i am hate EU lots' is: the EU is so profoundly overwhelmingly jammed up with crap and continuity overload, as well as a number of things it did that completely invalidated some of the most important and iconic elements of the star wars theme and the institutions and ideas and conclusions of the movies. The only viable option was to drop the EU and free writers up to make a whole new movie future without having to work carefully around the inbred continuity of the new republic and all the characters.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Sam wrote:
regular or longprobe?

I... I don't know that! WAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH

Nah regular.
Thanks for playing along too


PLEASE don't fly those old fuckers in atmo above 750 kph, even with the shields on ok

if it were a longprobe I'd say 1k-2k is safe enough, since those remained in fairly tip-top condition even after the decommissioning of the general Y-Wings
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OklahomanSun



Joined: 16 Mar 2014
Posts: 359

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
OklahomanSun wrote:
Holy fucking god, can we simply assume at this point based on the fact that most of your Star Wars themed posts make reference to your hatred of the EU that you hate the EU and move on?

Or maybe you could make it your sig.

Because really, I think the point has been hammered home.


I am very sorry you are challenged by a strong statement of opinion about the EU!

And the point has apparently not been hammered home because I obviously don't hate the EU and could actually talk at considerable length about what I would want to save or repurpose for the reboot and what I do not want to see languish in the new Legacy alt-canon.

The actual point that is not 'i am hate EU lots' is: the EU is so profoundly overwhelmingly jammed up with crap and continuity overload, as well as a number of things it did that completely invalidated some of the most important and iconic elements of the star wars theme and the institutions and ideas and conclusions of the movies. The only viable option was to drop the EU and free writers up to make a whole new movie future without having to work carefully around the inbred continuity of the new republic and all the characters.


Mate, nice dig attempt, but I'm not "challenged" by essentially anything you say. It could be that your constant battering of the EU and use of naughty shocking swear words is essentially a juvenile attempt without any significant depth.

I was just pointing out the tiresome nature of one dimensional arguments. Yes, we've accepted your position. You can now work from that acceptance further into your topic, if you so choose. By opening, closing, and/or filling the middle of your conversation repeatedly with your opinion of the "shitty wank" in the EU, you've solidly landed that point.

I do love that you're not happy with the jumble of stuff in the EU but ecstatic about the politically correct, consumer driven Disney shit that is almost certainly about to be shoved down our throats.

You do realise that Disney and Marvel are already working on new novels with a new EU, and that there are almost certainly going to be books that take characters in directions that parallel things you disagreed with in the original EU, right?
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, this is just -fun-.

Sam will you tell me what you think of Mara Jade, please?
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OklahomanSun



Joined: 16 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:



i think of blasters like this: assume a thousand years from now nothing has come along which has supplanted the ready utility of firearms. like, we don't get lasers or plasma blasters or anything, it's still just a metal slug forced out of a barrel at high velocities with propellant. Which is, you know, entirely possible. The end result being that any and all developments in weapons design for personal armament has gone from revolutionary to incremental, and the incremental advancements really become more and more aesthetic and minute. In sum you have a handful of well known forms which are pretty much as good as firearms get, and you have versions which are designed around specific concerns (sandproofed firearms, firearms for moist or wet environments, firearms designed around minimum weight, more expensive firearms with rangefinders and all that, minimized weapon length designs, etc) but they've all become pretty iconic. You could point to weapons from relatively early on in modern weapons development and they'd look fairly similar in a lot of regards but you would recognize them as antiques. Like, you'd see an AK-47 and know it's from generations ago, but the basic functionality of the AK underlies the slugthrower you're using many hundreds of years later.




Not totally fair to bring real life into this, but we've already seen weaponised lasers tested, and the Navy has functioning railguns, so your comment that it's entirely possible we never move on from firearms is already, currently, right now, topically, like Social Studies students have to write a current events paper on it level, happening.

This second.

Like... this was a railgun shot.



And here's a weaponised laser shot.



The laser itself.

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khan



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing to see!

Last edited by khan on Tue May 27, 2014 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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khan



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, i have to say Kyp Durron's entire presence in the novels was a substantial pile of suck imo. Sun Crusher was frankly so childishly inane I cant believe it got vetted. When Clone Palpatine's superweapon is made to look super-reasonable, i think we have a problem.

Rakka... erm, those stupid mon cal knockoffs from KOTOR. It seemed like the game just made a giant dookie on the cannon history. Seemed to contradict or at least strain things for no reason.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not totally fair to bring real life into this, but we've already seen weaponised lasers tested, and the Navy has functioning railguns, so your comment that it's entirely possible we never move on from firearms is already, currently, right now, topically, like Social Studies students have to write a current events paper on it level, happening.

This second.


do you not know the definition of the word 'firearms'

it is ok if you do not, but it is obvious, i would hope, that i was talking about man portable weapons. now, unless someone has somehow miraculously solved the energy supply limitations that have prevented ptential feasible development towards carrying a handheld laser or railgun into the field, then the stuff you have presented to me is not strictly or at all relevant to what i was saying

like i am looking at those pictures dear sir and i am sure that even with my fairly robust upper body strength and quads i am going to be unable to functionally carry any of those things on my person! i am well aware of the USN's EM rail launcher program and our advancements in laser weapons and countermeasure installations but we have not created laser or rail firearms

Quote:
I was just pointing out the tiresome nature of one dimensional arguments. Yes, we've accepted your position. You can now work from that acceptance further into your topic, if you so choose. By opening, closing, and/or filling the middle of your conversation repeatedly with your opinion of the "shitty wank" in the EU, you've solidly landed that point.


thank you for your advice but I intend to carry on exactly as I am doing so because I do not consider your advice to be useful to me in terms of how I intend to conduct myself nor do I think you have the ethos to be speaking on such things as tone or substantive critique of how a person is presenting themselves! if you find this tone of mine leaves you substantially upset with how I am conducting this thread I can remind you that at least this time around participation in my thread is NOT mandatory and you can cease participation if you wish!

thank you for your interest in SamCo™ threads.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
Oh, this is just -fun-.

Sam will you tell me what you think of Mara Jade, please?


Mara Jade was overall more good than bad, and ultimately I consider her one of the better considered women characters of Star Wars, and also ultimately a thing of quite wasted potential.

Were it not for the various neuroses of the games industry and their allergy to women as main written characters for games, you could have had a few kickass A or AAA games where you played Mara Jade during various points in her illustrious career.

I am actually individually of the opinion that Starkiller should not have existed and that Force Unleashed should have been the story of Mara Jade's training and storyline parallel to the heroes of the rebellion that she would soon join, and the jedi she would marry.

Instead we got the Poochie-Kratos of the star wars universe 'cos we can't have main characters not be manly mans men, and he has to be able to CRASH STAR DESTROYERS WITH HIS HANDS BECAUSE GOKU URRRR YARRRR

anyway the whole EU storyline of MJ pretty much capped her out and crapped her out and it would have been really nice to see some different things happen with her individual journey but all in all I guess it's what's to be expected, especially considering the age of the canon.

MJ appears to have been a strong potential influence for other "assassins of the light" — jedi watchmen and the like, who supplant the teachings of the force with other pragmatic understandings and operability of subterfuge, infiltration, and counter-espionage. In her own right she should have developed into a revamp of the Watchmen or a Sentinel in ways that were .. a little different than usual.

And hers was not the snorefest that became of the luke and leia marriageventure so hey not too bad

Jury's out on whether she'll be mentioned or be part of the new canon. Luke may have even just not married. I would consider this the most likely option EXCEPT that people really want new skywalkers. So, it's not the best bet. And if he did marry, a reimagining of MJ is going to probably be that girl.

I just don't want her to be a background character, really.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khan wrote:
Rakka... erm, those stupid mon cal knockoffs from KOTOR. It seemed like the game just made a giant dookie on the cannon history. Seemed to contradict or at least strain things for no reason.


I'm trying to recall who these could be but all I can recall are the Selkath, who made Kolto on their homeworld and you have to travel there to battle over trade rights to the vital medical supply. the fish guys with the gravelly AHJHQHWQH QQHQJHEHWHWQ voices, was that them?
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
I just don't want her to be a background character, really.


Meeeee tooooo.

I'm pretty sure Mara Jade and Luke are at least partially to blame for my affinity to ship people who may or may not want to kill each other sometimes.

It's a problem.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually like the whole Xim the Despot thing, and especially the twist regarding his legendary treasure hoard. Frankly the EU novels could use more stuff like that and less stuff like making every Skywalker/Solo get tempted by the Dark Side.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more I find out about the light side the more dubious I feel about it. Like, growing up I always expected my moral version of right and wrong to be the same as light side of the force vs dark side of the force and when it turned out it wasn't I was... not thrilled.

Like, it made playing through some of the games kind of awkward because the 'good guy' response was shitty and made me feel shitty and oh god does this mean I'm going to turn into a bad guy what do what do.

I have a lot of feelings about being the good guy in the story.
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