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Some musings on "bro" solidarity
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zarus



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:25 am    Post subject: Some musings on "bro" solidarity Reply with quote

I always get the sense that the edifice of corporatized masculinity is like a house of cards that's constantly in danger of collapsing in on itself. It's counterintuitive that a subculture that values aggression and anti-intellectualism would be able to maintain any sort of organization beyond the level of the family without outside help, and the massive amount of money that goes into maintaining the bread and circuses system necessary to maintain this mythology reflects this.

There's a passage from the Tao Te Ching, which can be translated as: "When there is no peace in the family, there arises filial piety and paternal kindness." One interpretation that's relevant to this is that the creation of a large set of rules to govern and influence social interaction reflects a fundamental instability in the larger society. An obvious metaphor would be a man with weak bones who is implanted with iron bars to enable him to walk. These might reinforce isolated parts of his skeleton, but the iron bars can not serve the manifold functions of bone (replacing blood, creating new tissue from stem cells, growing and adapting to fluctuations in bodily activity, etc.).

And indeed, without the sense of organization handed down by the education/entertainment complex, without the artificial sense of self-respect engendered by New-Deal style "administrative" work and "leadership" positions, without the police to deter them from destroying themselves and their environment, I think that the vast majority of males would either be "lost at sea" or forced to learn some extremely painful, even fatal, lessons. I don't think that that's necessarily a "bad" thing, although my constitutional lack of empathy may skew my perspective somewhat. I do, however, think that the collapse of the edifice would lead to change, to a society that is unrecognizable to many.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...I don't really know what to reply to that
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you really a juggalo worshipper?
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zarus



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To put it more plainly:

Whenever I go into a bar, there's always this sense that a fight could erupt at any time. There's a culture that sustains this kind of sentiment, but at the same time, there's a sense that things can't ever get too out of hand without the cops coming in and cracking skulls. The media and the government surreptitiously promote both currents. They encourage (organized) aggression, and at the same time, they create the institutions that force everything to be under control. This delicate, unnatural balance could never exist without a carefully maintained system of control, and without this system, most of what we call America's "culture" would quickly degenerate.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zarus wrote:
To put it more plainly:

Whenever I go into a bar, there's always this sense that a fight could erupt at any time. There's a culture that sustains this kind of sentiment, but at the same time, there's a sense that things can't ever get too out of hand without the cops coming in and cracking skulls. The media and the government surreptitiously promote both currents. They encourage (organized) aggression, and at the same time, they create the institutions that force everything to be under control. This delicate, unnatural balance could never exist without a carefully maintained system of control, and without this system, most of what we call America's "culture" would quickly degenerate.


You go to what is referred to in the bartending industry as "shitty bars"
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Eiden



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a very surreal conflict theory of normative "bro solidarity" and I do not think any sociological analysis substantiates it, zarus.

I probably think that because what you are saying makes very little sense. I do not think you have figured out how to describe your position coherently yet. Summarize?
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zarus



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So professional sports and action movies and the like don't artificially stimulate society's appetite for aggression?

Quote:
This is a very surreal conflict theory of normative "bro solidarity" and I do not think any sociological analysis substantiates it, zarus.

I probably think that because what you are saying makes very little sense. I do not think you have figured out how to describe your position coherently yet. Summarize?


Bro culture emphasizes self-concept on the one hand and cohesion on the other. These two ideas are mutually contradictory and can not coexist without an external organizing influence, like a relatively disinterested corporate or government bureaucracy, or a "coach."


Last edited by zarus on Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:54 am; edited 3 times in total
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Eiden



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not in any recognized sense believe self-concept and (presumably social) cohesion are mutually contradictory. They can certainly coexist, from my reckoning. How are you defining them?
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zarus



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I define self-concept in its basest, more "animal" terms, that is, the desire for dominance and exclusive access to resources. This is the form of self-concept that the "ruling class" promotes. It's easy to see how this would clash with any conception of group cohesion.
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Eiden



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what messages are teaching "bro" labeled people this almost hobbesian state of desire for exclusive access to resources? what are those lessons?
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zarus



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pop culture in general, I would say. Everything in our culture is about status obsession, more specifically status that can be bought and sold, status that isn't internalized, like skills or knowledge or solidified character traits.
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Eiden



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is every bro competing against every other bro for exclusive access to resources?
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zarus



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're at least competing for dominance. That in itself is exclusive by its very nature.
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Eiden



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do they fundamentally believe that dominance permits them anything? Could they kill lesser bros when they so desire? Is bro life a war of all against all?
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zarus



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This feeling exists, but it's sublimated by the fear of authority.
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