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2014/Jun/06 - Devil Tech 8
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baronskippy



Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like how blue is literally one step below the devil himself yet many of you are dogging on milton for being a socially awkward idiot. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who's worse.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6084
Location: California

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i hope the point remembered to take some oxygen with it when it sailed so far over your head
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baronskippy



Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
i hope the point remembered to take some oxygen with it when it sailed so far over your head


I certainly hope you don't get lost when you miss the forest for the trees. No need of you to respond like such a little prick.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6084
Location: California

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey so you're still here reading this comic that you said "makes you feel bad for being a man" (you should actually feel bad for being a little piece of shit because being a man is okay but being a little piece of shit isn't but that's something else) so maybe you shouldn't be lecturing other people about missing points and getting lost eh
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Midnight Tea



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 202
Location: In the Haunted Lands

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apples and oranges. Talking about Milton's character faults and how his behavior is gross relates to real world troubles. If most of us had to deal with overtly supernatural demonic megacorps (and more specifically the people behind them) in our day to day lives as we might socially maladjusted creepy/horny coworkers, perhaps then it'd be worth talking about how bad Blue or D-man is in the same sort of context as we're discussing Milton.

It's the same reason that in a roleplaying game, having a villain burn down the hero's village and murder faceless NPC villagers isn't going to automatically incite antipathy from the audience. Not unless we wind up deeply relating to that village and the people in it long beforehand or otherwise tap into our everyday human experiences. Most RPGs don't have that kind of quality writing.
That's all sidestepping a larger point anyway: Even if the heads of D-corp did trigger internal antipathy to the same degree (or at bare minimum had as much relevance to a reader beyond the symbolic/emblematic evil they represent) it still wouldn't necessarily mean Milton is off the hook. It'd just mean another discussion would happen alongside his, not necessarily inviting a comparison. Shitty people are shitty people without getting into a "douchebag Star Destroyer versus the douchebag Enterprise" type debate.
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baronskippy



Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
hey so you're still here reading this comic that you said "makes you feel bad for being a man" (you should actually feel bad for being a little piece of shit because being a man is okay but being a little piece of shit isn't but that's something else) so maybe you shouldn't be lecturing other people about missing points and getting lost eh


It's pretty funny how angry you get over simple comments. It's also hilarious that you wasted time looking up my previous comment that has nothing to do with the topic being discussed.

I'd bet if I looked at all your precious comment's 90% of them would be some shitty infantile retort like the one you gave me but I wont cause aside from these posts I'm making you have no importance to me.

So move along Ma'am/Sir/It.
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Midnight Tea



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 202
Location: In the Haunted Lands

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, lest I forget:

Milton up to this point is the only devil person who actually killed another character in the context of the comic.

So even if we allow for the emblematic/symbolic type evil (that may not tie directly to our human experiences) to be part of the same discussion as shitty people in the workplace, Milton still has a place in the discussion.


EDIT: And by the way, if anyone brings up that whole "oh noes she wasn't a person it doesn't count" again -- you're still proving my point that his greater "villainy" is discussion-worthy by having that discussion itself.
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baronskippy



Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, milton did kill, but he did so on the boss's orders which blue was aware of, many characters were complicit in that murder. Which also begs the question, Is it the hand that holds the knife that's to blame or the brain that sends the orders? Furthermore is the other hand culpable for not intervening?
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Midnight Tea



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 202
Location: In the Haunted Lands

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Skipper, you're not diverting the discussion on my end. I made my point already and you played right into it. Nicely done, by the way.
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baronskippy



Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny, first the constipated pony immediately stomps on my nuts then the retarded vampire refuses to reply. Got some kind of creepy small town mentality going on in this forum. May as well just post random letters for all the discussion that comes from my posts.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2780
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People who have a crush and aren't delusional will note cold demeanors and hints in text and body - when someone is not in to you, *move on*. Milton won't because he's thoroughly convinced that if he does something she likes, she'll suddenly realize how madly in love she is with him (barf, thanks Hollywood movies).

People need to lay off the idea that this is somehow cute to be this obsessed. It's not. It's only a damn pain for everyone in the long run.
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Midnight Tea



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 202
Location: In the Haunted Lands

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
People who have a crush and aren't delusional will note cold demeanors and hints in text and body - when someone is not in to you, *move on*. Milton won't because he's thoroughly convinced that if he does something she likes, she'll suddenly realize how madly in love she is with him (barf, thanks Hollywood movies).

People need to lay off the idea that this is somehow cute to be this obsessed. It's not. It's only a damn pain for everyone in the long run.

Feels like this is a good time as any to post this.

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Timpie



Joined: 28 Jul 2013
Posts: 78
Location: Mainland Europe - Belgium

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Midnight Tea wrote:
Milton up to this point is the only devil person who actually killed another character in the context of the comic.


To be honest, if you count the reprogrammed fembots at the original factory as well, Milton really has killed quite a bunch of characters so far. He's by far the most effective villain of the lot!
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firestk



Joined: 20 Feb 2014
Posts: 17
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timpie wrote:
To be honest, if you count the reprogrammed fembots at the original factory as well, Milton really has killed quite a bunch of characters so far. He's by far the most effective villain of the lot!


Are we leaving out, you know, Death? And are the fembots sentient before they enter the Reality Zone? I've seen that they remember what they were beforehand but that's about it.
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Hekateras



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khan wrote:
Thats actually pretty innocent, and milton is kinda trying to empathsize a bit. Hes wrong, but he didnt say 'oh shes hurtin!!', or something similarly douchey. Nothing creepy about wondering if someone is a bit interested, but he sure can DO something creepy about his idea. And knowing Milton, she probably doesnt need to worry. He IS a creep for his other behaviours (including saph stuff), but this is pretty neutral.

In contrast, being pissed off that someone is attracted to you, and possibly a bit overly hopeful shows an incredible lack of empathy. Not exactly surprising, since we know blue enjoys torturing helpless souls. You know, literally. Ffs, she barely had any empathy for fuschia, the only person that truly liked her, and probably the only one she ever cared about. She made the right choice eventually, but had to be badgered into it.

I dont think either of these devilpeople are decent mind you, but blue is much more hands on active evil, vs Milton's ignorant empowering of a bad system.


Wow, the victim blaming here. Blue "torturing helpless souls" because she freaking *told him to do his job* as is in her authority to do and didn't respond to his flirting???! What the hell?

(Incidentally, the "they are both bad people" thing is entirely irrelevant here. It's possible to be a bad person and not be a sexist ass. Similarly, if one is a bad person, that doesn't mean one deserves to be treated in the most humiliating, dignity-stripping way possible - that of being reduced to just one's body parts. This just feeds dangerously into the "it's not bad if the victim isn't very virtuous" narrative.)

My comment re his creepiness and lack of empathy meant it in the most literal sense: it's creepy that he's SO badly out of tune with interpreting women's tone and body language that a conversation in which Blue is being assertive, neutral and impatient would leave him with a "she was flirting with me!" impression. It IS creepy how little men are taught to properly interpret female voice and body language - so yes, it is an empathy problem and a man problem. A woman's way of acting in that situation is clear enough and universal enough that it's not uncommon for another woman - even a complete stranger - to come to her rescue and intervene by inventing some excuse.

Plus, it is creepy that he made the "that's so totally hot!" comment, as far as we know, in her presence.

And it's creepy that you're defending him after he a) made an objectifying, denigrating comment about his female temporary boss where she could hear it and b) proceeded to try to weasel out of his orders.

Midnight Tea wrote:


What makes him creepy is that he doesn't have a realistic understanding of what comprises an intimate overture. What makes him creepy is that it colors his interactions with his coworkers to the point they can obviously tell he's drooling over them. Blue's reaction in the final panel ("fucking creep") is important because the involved movements and body language is difficult to portray in this medium and we can't see where his eyes are looking at. When someone is clearly lusting after you and lacks even the most basic social skills to either temper that feeling or confess it to you in a mature way, that will make you uncomfortable with every interaction. Milton just takes it to the next level by not even being self-aware enough to know what a healthy romantic interaction even looks like.

(By the way, it's not a matter of gender. Anyone can be guilty of this. I've had female coworkers creep on me in very much the same way -- though admittedly, I had much less reason to worry that that during a company party she might get drunk and try to force herself on me.)


This + everything Echo's been saying. And thank you, Yinello.

@Skippy, your "point" (insomuch as I can call borderline incoherent-swearing suffused with ableist slurs a point) relies on taking the most shallow reading of the comic possible. The Devil's whole organisation has consistently stood as an allegory for ruthless materialist capitalism. There are people just like Milton and Blue in our world; they work in tech companies, banks, corporations and many other places. Even if they're involved with companies who have shady practices (which at this point would be most if not ALL companies that hold a monopoly in the US), even if they're *personally* involved with them, that doesn't mean they deserve harassment, sexual or otherwise.
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