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2014-06-15 - Devil Tech Headquarters 17
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:

brb
setting up a Turing Test where examiners have to determine between a program designed to imitate a completely illiterate homeless man and an actual illiterate homeless man via text correspondence



wooo, my program passed the Turing Test
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Midnight Tea



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
Just going to throw it out there that when you start referring to people as mental children people generally take that as a sign that you have a weak argument and are attempting to prop it up with ad hominem attacks.

Not that I like Rothide, but I'll calls it as I sees it.

I really encourage you to understand what the difference is between ad hominem argumentation and an insult before calling anyone else to the carpet over it.

Incidentally the logic of "this person is insulting the other person; therefor their argument is weak" is closer to being legitimate ad hominem, because it's dismissing what someone is saying based on their character as opposed to the content of their words. I know what you're saying though -- insults are usually poor form. But this is the Sinfest forum. If the Sinfest forum were a country, insulting the mentally challenged would be a national sport.

Anyways, to refute the claim I'm guilty of ad hominem: Rothide's arguments being weak has nothing directly to do with him being stark raving mad. His arguments are weak because he presents them extremely badly. He dissolves further and further into non-sequiturs the more it's pointed out his frankly bizarre interpretations of the characters and their motives aren't supported by the comic itself. He's going to do that anyway so I thought to have some fun by provoking him a bit.
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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
Midnight Tea wrote:
Also, Rothide? You shouldn't identify with Milton. He's not a good role model for (mental) children.


Just going to throw it out there that when you start referring to people as mental children people generally take that as a sign that you have a weak argument and are attempting to prop it up with ad hominem attacks.

Not that I like Rothide, but I'll calls it as I sees it.


Not quite an ad hominem:

To paraphrase Lore Sjoberg (And I so butchered the spelling of his name:)

"Your mother orally pleasures nutria, therefore, you're wrong" is an ad hominem.

"Your mother orally pleasures nutria, AND you're wrong" is just an insult.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"you're wrong in a rather spectacular way, therefore you are {colorful pejorative for idiocy}" is the opposite of an ad hominem
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Midnight Tea wrote:
But this is the Sinfest forum. If the Sinfest forum were a country, insulting the mentally challenged would be a national sport.


No.

Insulting assholes would be the national sport.

The vast majority of us actually do try to lay off people who probably have a mental disability.

(It get's muddled because sometimes people with mental disabilities also happen to be assholes, but NONE THE LESS, it's a very important distinction.)
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Midnight Tea



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:

No.

Insulting assholes would be the national sport.

The vast majority of us actually do try to lay off people who probably have a mental disability.

(It get's muddled because sometimes people with mental disabilities also happen to be assholes, but NONE THE LESS, it's a very important distinction.)

You're absolutely right, allow me the correction Smile
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Istancow



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't be much of an athlete. I haven't the stomach for telling people off.

If avoiding confrontation were a sport, though, I think I might be a star player.

"And here's Istancow with a stunning retreat! Just look at how quickly he retracts those statements!"
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Rune



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is the exact same thing wrong with Milton that is wrong with most people who perpetrate and perpetuate the very worst and most widespread evils in any culture. The complete inability to see past themselves, and viewing another sort of person in terms of a purpose, "sort", and role relative to themselves, rather than as an autonomous person to apply the golden rule to.

Is there tragedy in Milt's story? Yeah, I think there is. We haven't seen a lot of what got him where he is, but there's always something. But Milt is a fucking grown man who has also made his own choices to get where he is. The moment any sort of sympathy trumps the plain truth that he also makes choices that enable evil and cause pain, that he has LITERALLY created something of a feminized slave-race--which, even if they were not capable of sentience and being sympathetic beings as we've seen indicated, would still be hugely evil and cause all kinds of harm for real women and male-woman relationships in general--and that he, himself, is incapable of viewing women (even women in power) for anything beyond their sex appeal to men, then in that moment you've got a fucking sick problem.

"Bloo-hoo, poor Milton" is NOT more important than all the problems he is responsible for, and if you want a happy ending for him that does not involve him learning hard lessons, coming face-to-face with his own evils, and at least wanting to do better and make amends somehow, then methinks you've got some work to do to weed your own garden of those exact same sorts of problems. I don't think he deserves a drill to the face, but I sure don't think he deserves to ignore his own culpability either.

Just like Px needs to learn and do better. Just like Blue needs to learn and do better. Just like Fushia IS learning and doing better. Just like Slick needs to learn and do better.

You don't look at characters like Milt, feel all squishy about him, and say, "he's doing FINE, there's nothing WRONG." You look at him and say, "I can sympathize with this part of him, but gosh, look what he's doing. That's not okay. Why is he okay with doing these things that aren't okay? I'm seeing myself in him; do I justify not-okay things for similar reasons? I hope not, but if I do, maybe I can learn and do better."

Or, y'know, refuse to do that sort of hard thinking and all and choose to be a blindly terrible human being. Way to go.
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Rothide



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was reading some other blogs and they make a good point, that this whole story line was just to get Blue in trouble so she isn't high ranking in Devil Co anymore, or at least that what it looks like.

And to steal one of their jokes too, "I bet that Trike girl shows up just to tell Milton the drills not loaded too.
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
fritterdonut wrote:
Midnight Tea wrote:
Also, Rothide? You shouldn't identify with Milton. He's not a good role model for (mental) children.


Just going to throw it out there that when you start referring to people as mental children people generally take that as a sign that you have a weak argument and are attempting to prop it up with ad hominem attacks.

Not that I like Rothide, but I'll calls it as I sees it.


crappy ref botches another call


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Istancow



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Huh. This drill is made of foam."
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Midnight Tea



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
There is the exact same thing wrong with Milton that is wrong with most people who perpetrate and perpetuate the very worst and most widespread evils in any culture. The complete inability to see past themselves, and viewing another sort of person in terms of a purpose, "sort", and role relative to themselves, rather than as an autonomous person to apply the golden rule to.

Is there tragedy in Milt's story? Yeah, I think there is. We haven't seen a lot of what got him where he is, but there's always something. But Milt is a fucking grown man who has also made his own choices to get where he is. The moment any sort of sympathy trumps the plain truth that he also makes choices that enable evil and cause pain, that he has LITERALLY created something of a feminized slave-race--which, even if they were not capable of sentience and being sympathetic beings as we've seen indicated, would still be hugely evil and cause all kinds of harm for real women and male-woman relationships in general--and that he, himself, is incapable of viewing women (even women in power) for anything beyond their sex appeal to men, then in that moment you've got a fucking sick problem.

"Bloo-hoo, poor Milton" is NOT more important than all the problems he is responsible for, and if you want a happy ending for him that does not involve him learning hard lessons, coming face-to-face with his own evils, and at least wanting to do better and make amends somehow, then methinks you've got some work to do to weed your own garden of those exact same sorts of problems. I don't think he deserves a drill to the face, but I sure don't think he deserves to ignore his own culpability either.

Just like Px needs to learn and do better. Just like Blue needs to learn and do better. Just like Fushia IS learning and doing better. Just like Slick needs to learn and do better.

You don't look at characters like Milt, feel all squishy about him, and say, "he's doing FINE, there's nothing WRONG." You look at him and say, "I can sympathize with this part of him, but gosh, look what he's doing. That's not okay. Why is he okay with doing these things that aren't okay? I'm seeing myself in him; do I justify not-okay things for similar reasons? I hope not, but if I do, maybe I can learn and do better."

Or, y'know, refuse to do that sort of hard thinking and all and choose to be a blindly terrible human being. Way to go.

This. Just, so much this .

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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That gif is outdated

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Samsally



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Midnight Tea wrote:
Samsally wrote:

No.

Insulting assholes would be the national sport.

The vast majority of us actually do try to lay off people who probably have a mental disability.

(It get's muddled because sometimes people with mental disabilities also happen to be assholes, but NONE THE LESS, it's a very important distinction.)

You're absolutely right, allow me the correction Smile

Of course! Very Happy
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Istancow



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see that .gif and my mind thinks "Leohan" instead of "Citizen Kane". I've spent too much time on this forum.
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