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It's a white cishet world after all.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 14121
Location: Unknown Kaddath

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you guys are missing the big picture here. Are you sheep? Can't you see what's happening?

THE GOVERNMENT IS POPULATING MARS WITH ROBOTS!

By now, every occupant of Mars could be a machine already! AND NOBODY IS DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT!
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 1448

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
whereas I have seen very few niche groups trying the same thing with homosexuality, and they tend to get dismissed a lot quicker.


Tell that to the people who like to spout off about how NAMBLA proves that all homosexuals are pedophiles.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 4741
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fail to see why trans people needing gender confirmation surgery is similar to people wanting to have their limbs removed. Please clarify why you think this is similar, jabberjay.
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Ennis



Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 992
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
Ennis wrote:
whereas I have seen very few niche groups trying the same thing with homosexuality, and they tend to get dismissed a lot quicker.


Tell that to the people who like to spout off about how NAMBLA proves that all homosexuals are pedophiles.

I'm not talking about mainstream homophobic or transphobic groups, I'm talking about as if suddenly a large amount of pedophiles on the internet got together, named themselves childsexual and then moaned about how their orientation is just like gay people's and there should be more acceptance towards them. And then didn't understand why gay people might tell them to fuck off and stop making the comparison.
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Jabberjay



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 357

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only viable aspect of that comparison is that pedophiles never asked to be attracted to children in much the same way that homosexuals (or any kind of "-sexual") never asked to be attracted to whomever they want to have sex with. Pedophilia is more akin to a paraphilia (fetish) than a sexual orientation, but neither are controllable to the degree that they wouldn't make life difficult. Can you imagine feeling aroused every time you see a kid? How fucked up that would be? Even if you knew that sexually abusing a child were probably one of the worst things you could do your body and lizard-brain would keep trying to encourage you, like a starving man exposed to a juicy steak?

It's still no excuse for actually comitting any act of sexual abuse on a child, but we shouldn't treat a pedophile like a monster on the basis of their attraction. If they remorselessly sexually abuse children THEN you can feel free to consider them a monster. This is the difference between an "active" and an "inactive" pedophile. Since the only people pedophiles can talk to their urges about without being judged into next week are other pedophiles they tend to form online echo-chambers that only encourage the worst kind of behaviour. If they had non-pedophiles they could trust with their secret there would be less pedophiles out there abusing children.

So pedophiles do need a support organization, just NAMBLA is offering the opposite of what is needed in both terms of practicality and public image. Also no politician wants to even risk sounding like they consider a pedophile human, even if that pedo hasn't actually molested any kids. Things are just as bad, although in a mix of different ways, with biastophiles (rape fetishists).

If my paraphilia wasn't based on an impossible act or event I'd honestly be a lot more worried about the nature of my predilictions, but even then it still isn't as fucked up as being into kids. So long as they haven't molested anyone I have nothing but pity for a pedophile. In the sexual lottery they got fucking SCREWED.

EDIT: The single line if simularity between a transexual and trans-ablist is a likelihood of body dysmorphia. Part of what most would consider a "normal" phyiscal state causes them psychological anguish. If all somebody needs to fix that is some hormones and maybe some surgery then there isn't a problem.

Somebody hacking off a perfectly good limb is debatably a problem.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 4741
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But, again, one of the key differences is the fact that BDD responds to psychopharmacology, whereas GID does not. Treatment for BDD often involves the use of SSRI medications like Sertaline or Fluoxetine. Furthermore, psychotherpy is often successful in convincing the BDD sufferer that their perceptions are distorted. Those with GID are rarely convinced they are mistaken. GID (especially "transsexualism") also often manifests during early childhood, rather than during adolescence.


http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/BDD.htm


For shorthand for you, BDD is treated with cognitive behavioral therapy and drugs. Transgender people who are experiencing problems related to being trans receive therapy, hormones and surgery. Being trans will not disappear with drugs or cognitive behavioral therapy.

So people with BDD would not receive surgery because that is an inappropriate course of treatment, while it is an appropriate course of treatment for some trans people.
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Jabberjay



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh, you learn something new everyday.

Although, thinking about that for a few moments, it really adds another level of sad to the whole situation. It means that the people who cut off perfectly good limbs could have just got medication and therapy. That's goddamn tragic.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 4741
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's amazing what two minutes on Google can do for you.

Do you also understand why it is not okay to compare being trans to BDD?
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Jabberjay



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because being compared to people who are legitimately insane is a profoundly insulting categorization error?

Is that it? Is that the right answer? Do I get a prize? If my prize is "you learned something and grew as a person" Imma be at least mildly dissatisfied.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not quite. No prize. Moving on now.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your consolation prize is scorn.
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Jabberjay



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 357

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
Your consolation prize is scorn.


But I already have so much of that! Dammit.

I'm totally re-gifting some of this scorn. He's not anyone you know. Hope that's cool.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put it in a pretty wrapper with curling ribbon, and none shall be the wiser.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Put it in a pretty wrapper with curling ribbon, and none shall be the wiser.


Fuck curling ribbon.

It always ends up either too curly, or not curly enough. And then when you think you've finally got the right amount of pressure on the scissors for the perfect curl, the ribbon breaks. And single strands of curling ribbon always seem so... bare. Which means you have to curl a whole bunch to make a bouquet of curls in order to sufficiently snazz up your gift.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
fritterdonut wrote:
Ennis wrote:
whereas I have seen very few niche groups trying the same thing with homosexuality, and they tend to get dismissed a lot quicker.


Tell that to the people who like to spout off about how NAMBLA proves that all homosexuals are pedophiles.

I'm not talking about mainstream homophobic or transphobic groups, I'm talking about as if suddenly a large amount of pedophiles on the internet got together, named themselves childsexual and then moaned about how their orientation is just like gay people's and there should be more acceptance towards them. And then didn't understand why gay people might tell them to fuck off and stop making the comparison.


Uhhhh.... that's exactly what happened. A group of pedophiles who also happened to be homosexual got together (but not on the internet - in real life) and made the North American Man Boy Love Association. They argued that pedophilia was just like homosexuality and should also be legalized. They participated, or attempted to participate in pride rallies and parades. This caused major splits in LGBT organizations who rightfully didn't want to be associated with pedophiles and pederasts. They caused a lot of lasting damage to the Gay/Lesbian/Bi cause because it further cemented the idea that homosexuality was related to pedophilia.

This was far beyond Tumblr stupidity and was an actual IRL cancerous tumor in the LGBT movement that seriously damaged it's reputation and continues to be used by anti-LGBT people as evidence that homosexuality is dangerous for society. It also caused some splits between the Gay pride movement and the Lesbian pride movement due to distrust because of the specific association with male homosexuality and differing opinions on what to do about it on all sides.

I'm not saying that the whole Otherkin/Trans-Ablist/whatever thing isn't bullshit and I don't think transgender people should have to deal with that bullshit. But it's not right to dismiss the fact this has been a problem for LGB people, either.
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