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July 29, 2014: Girlfriends
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is this phenomenon of women hating other women and viewing them as competition. Especially if the women are sexy or promiscuous. So it may have been more other women avoiding being friends with Nique. She did behave in similar ways to the devil girls, and the general population doesn't seem to like them either.
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diagram12345



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
haha, yeah teen wolf is super shitty about that stuff too (especially in the 'but we have an openly gay character SEE SEE SEE oh i guess we just couldn't find a place for him this season nevermind. or 'oh i guess she's bi not actually a lesbian looooooool'. and look i'm just really done with teen wolf's bullshit right now.)


Without context, and having never seen Teen Wolf -- it would be great to see more bisexual characters, and confront the reality that sometimes there are people who think they're one sexuality but shift into another.

Maybe it's actually done in a sleazy way, but the idea of a person who identifies as lesbian but then realizes she's also attracted to men isn't a bad thing.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I totally agree with you! I would LOVE to see more bi characters existing just because.

However, Teen Wolf has been treating the queer spectrum like a check list. They had a lesbian in one episode, pat themselves on the back. Then they're like 'psyche! she's really bi!' then pat themselves on the back for that, too, instead of just. I dunno, letting there exist a lesbian and a bi woman. (and then put her in a sexualized scene with a character that the entire fandom has been screaming "HE'S PROBABLY BI I BET" and do the queerbaitiest bullshit by having her flat out -ASK HIM- if he's ever been attracted to men before and he just sort of doesn't answer. also she's literally never seen or heard from again after this). They had exactly one openly gay male character for three seasons but refuse to make him more than a side character despite fandom's love for him (dannnnnnny), then ditch him in season four for no apparent reason. (I haven't actually been watching season 4, i heard rumor they replaced him with a gay white dude though because -of fucking course-) Official excuse is "they couldn't find a fit for him in the season" but he's a hacker and apparently this seasons big bad has been fucking with people via electronics so I DUNNO TEEN WOLF I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT DANNY COULD POSSIBLY DO IN THIS SITUATION.

....

*cough*

Sorry. I swear to god I'm trying to get over it and I'm not actually watching it anymore I just keep hearing about it now.

Anyway tl;dr: You're not wrong. You are the opposite of wrong. However, Teen Wolf is still being shitty about representation in a lot of ways and I'm kinda bitter.

(also is there an equivalent to 'hacker' that doesn't give me flashbacks to the mid 90's?)
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Jabberjay



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Britney from Glee is my favourite female bisexual character of all time. Out of all of the stupid love plots on that show hers are the only ones that have actually made me cry with both sadness and happiness.

My least favourite bisexual female character is Caprica Six. She's just terrible, and when you find out who her "mother" is it is pretty damn clear why. It also pretty much explains Cavil and why his entire line are pieces of shit.
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Hydro



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is adorable, even if I don't ship them as a couple. Squee.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Britney's whole story in that show is one of the most interesting things they did.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:


(also is there an equivalent to 'hacker' that doesn't give me flashbacks to the mid 90's?)


I dunno. When I hear "hacker" I tend to think either "effective fiddly detail optimizer", "quick-and-dirty solution maker", or "uggggh the pop culture word for cracker-script-kiddy-nerd urrrgghghghghghg kill me now".

Is there an equivalent to "firebomb" that doesn't give me flashbacks to WWII?
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Last edited by Heretical Rants on Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ronald



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jabberjay wrote:
But never feeling that close to anyone of the same sex, ever? With Monique's outgoing nature that's either really bad luck or indicitive that she had a prior problem forming legitimately close relationships.


Monique used to mostly hang around with Slick, Crim, and Squig in a strip that had almost no other female characters besides the Anonymous Sinfest Women(c) who were always rejecting Slick (and the occasional named woman, but any female character with potential inevitably vanished after a week or so). She couldn't be friends with other women because she for all intent and purpose lived in a world that had no other women.

Before the Devil Girls showed up in (checking) 2007, IIRC the only other recurring female character was Ariel the Angel, who AFAIK has never been seen without Ezekiel; Ezekiel has appeared without Ariel, but not vice versa. She literally has no life outside of her relationship with her boyfriend. Paging the Sisterhood...

Plus, to put it bluntly, she's short, and until the Sisterhood made their triumphant return, short women were almost unheard of in the strip. Monique towering over Slick, Squig, and Crim worked because she was more mature than the first two and more worldly than the third. Monique towering over another woman would be, I don't know, awkward or something. She towers over Minique, but Minique is apparently a mere tween, not an adult.

Tat's done a lot with Devils but almost nothing with Angels, another example of the trope of "evil" being more fun than "good." An entire subculture of Devils and only two Angels? What's that about, anyway?

***

As should always be remembered, of course, Monique can't do or say anything that Tat doesn't "make" her say, so obviously it's his decision that Monique has never before had any close female friends. He thought about it and "made" her say that.

Come to think of it, Slick, Squig, and Crim don't really seem to have any other close male friends but each other. Because, again, in the strip's early years, there were virtually no candidates, and as Tat has expanded his cast and themes, they've been increasingly out of the loop.


http://sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-01-03

Crim barely even rises to the level of irrelevant these days...
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wobster109



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Ronald - I thought Ariel was Ezekiel's sister. ^^

This sort of character is astonishingly common:

- In all 7 Harry Potter books and movies, Hermione has no BFF. She's vaguely friends with a bunch of other girls, but they're not close friends the way Harry and Ron are. Or even the way Harry, Ron, Seamus, Dean, and Neville are all friends together. (She is however romantic rivals with Lavendar.)
- In the original Star Wars movies, Luke and Han are close friends. Leia doesn't have female friends. (In the new movies, Padme has handmaidens who are presumably her friends, but with very little on-screen interaction.)
- In Pacific Rim (which people like to label feminist just because they like the movie), Mako never speaks to another woman.
- In all the Disney movies, the princess is friends with a male animal or sidekick.

Not to say there aren't female friendships in books and movies. However they are disproportionately left out, forgotten, and ignored by the (originally male) writers who (by no fault of their own) have never experienced it and don't know that it exists. So they wrote about men, and they wrote about women only as part of the men's stories.

As stripeypants said, we have this weird idea that women are rivals for romantic attention, that they are super-judgmental of each other, and that they are generally unpleasant to each other. It's not true. If you ask a bunch of women, do you have more female friends or romantic rivals? I guarantee they have more friends. Yes, women will be romantic rivals some of the time. But the friendships between women are beautiful, profound, and intimate in ways that are much more interesting than fighting over a guy. [/endrant]
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KillAllMen



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Echo wrote:
Quote:
As an earlier strip that I posted makes clear, Monique is at least aware of Tange's existence, so there's another potential pal.


'Nique and Tange are friends. And Tange is presumably still wearing 'Nique's shoes.


GLAM!
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also find it weird that women who work together are generally portrayed as gossiping about relationships, men, clothes, going out for a 'girls night'. Or they are being ridiculously cruel to each other.

Women do, in fact, talk about things like their jobs while at work.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus dudes gossip aaaaall the time. Nobody ever calls it what it is though, because they're dudes.
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Ennis



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
Plus dudes gossip aaaaall the time. Nobody ever calls it what it is though, because they're dudes.

I knew a guy who gossiped aaalllll the time, but totally refused to acknowledge he was partaking in gossip at all. It's just like dude, you are talking about other people when they aren't present, stuff that they've done and whether you like them or not. That is gossip. If I wanted dirt on someone I knew, I would probably ask or talk to you about it.
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Ronald



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wobster109 wrote:
@Ronald - I thought Ariel was Ezekiel's sister. ^^



Well, if so, their relationship is as at least as ... uh, well ... as that between The Devil and Li'l E.


http://sinfest.net/view.php?date=2000-05-04
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mouse



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
Samsally wrote:
Plus dudes gossip aaaaall the time. Nobody ever calls it what it is though, because they're dudes.

I knew a guy who gossiped aaalllll the time, but totally refused to acknowledge he was partaking in gossip at all. It's just like dude, you are talking about other people when they aren't present, stuff that they've done and whether you like them or not. That is gossip. If I wanted dirt on someone I knew, I would probably ask or talk to you about it.


oh man - some of the worst gossips i have known have been men. seriously manly men. men must phrase it differently when they think about it, though, because gossiping is clearly girly, so they would never do that. what they do is ...um....information sharing? evaluating current intel and projecting future courses of action? synching databases?

it isn't what you do that counts, it's whether you come up with a good word for it.
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