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August 3, 2014: No going back
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Posts: 614

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuchsia cares enough about changing to test how much she's changed. Meanwhile, she's trying to live a normal life with Crim, and even trying to make up with Blue after having left her behind. I'm not sure what more she's meant to do. More importantly, it's about changing who she is and what she does, rather than whether she has horns and a tail. She's not hurting anyone any more. Not tempting anyone. Not furthering the Devil's cause. Not attacking Seymour, even when he wants her to do commissions. She may not have gone on some sort of stupid epic quest to undo her status and look normal, but she's getting on with everything that she'd be doing in a normal life afterwards.

As for foot-binding and witch-burning, those were just two of the things Tat *could* draw something about, unlike many of the other issues mentioned in the fembot factory upload. So that's why they're mentioned, rather than fgm, rape, trafficking etc.

All of which are entirely legitimate subjects for anyone to get angry about. Giving them that information is not incitement or "hate speech". Women being angry at those who are attempting to control and sell them and subject them to whatever the modern equivalents are, are not
Quote:
berserk
nor do they
Quote:
need to be shut down
, they need to be freed.

This may be Sinfest where the Devil controls everything (or tries), but these are real-world issues that he's addressing, and musical contests make not a damn bit of difference to these problems.
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tamalthean



Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EverythingsJake wrote:
Oh, of course. So we also know that PX was one of that batch of fembots, for whatever that's worth.


Mmz, she was actually from a previous batch - these memories are from when she downloaded the files from the fembots of that batch who were scrapped:



Echo wrote:
I don't like the... almost blank expression on Blue's face after watching Pxsomethingsomething's suicide attempt. You'd hope to see some sort of reaction to all the stuff she's seen and been through, and what she tried to do about it, but... no.


I actually thought she looked quite sad and affected. Note the slight upturn of her eyebrows at the inner edges. Methinks she's not going to have the heart to press the remote destruct button when the time comes.

But yes, the last panel has alllllll sorts of juicy implications. I'm going to take this as Tat saying "You can't go back to being naive and innocent" rather than "You can't go back to being happy" (since the two are not mutually exclusive) here, though Blue might be taking a different view...
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EverythingsJake



Joined: 26 Jun 2014
Posts: 241
Location: The Jazz Age

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I can see I'm going to have to go back and re-read all the archives if I keep missing important bits like this.

Where's Milton's "Oh my babies, I'll rebuild you" in that installment? Hmph.
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Posts: 614

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I actually thought she looked quite sad and affected. Note the slight upturn of her eyebrows at the inner edges. Methinks she's not going to have the heart to press the remote destruct button when the time comes.


You could well be right there. But there's not a lot of obvious signs to pick up on. Though you can see her eyes there, whereas later on, you can't, just the glasses; like some human, feeling part of her has retreated.

Bit of a reach to read too much in to that, though. I'll go more on what she does from now on than anything else.
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Geareye



Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 280

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tamalthean wrote:


I actually thought she looked quite sad and affected. Note the slight upturn of her eyebrows at the inner edges. Methinks she's not going to have the heart to press the remote destruct button when the time comes.


I agree and it kinda disappoints me. It goes way against the characterisation of someone who's been shown to actively enjoy torturing souls in the hell pit. Then again, she never saw the memorie's of those souls, but still, I'd find it too sappy if she doesn't follow through with her schedule of shutting her down due to that. We'll see.
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 1852
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just because blue enjoys torturing the souls of the damned - who she has mentioned are terrible people and "scum of the earth" and has no reason to feel sympathetic towards - doesnt mean she's incapable of feeling sympathy at all.

this isn't the first time she's felt sympathy for someone while looking at their history.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6460

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it... really doesn't go against the torturing souls bit at all, actually? like, even outside the fact that people can change drastically over the years, people react very differently to someone they can relate to vs. like, hordes of faceless damned that she's been assured are Bad People and totally deserve misery.

like, it's entirely possible that realizing that rogue is a person will help her realize that the damned are also people and maybe stabbing them a lot is not such a great thing to do. it's almost like character development, wow.
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Jabberjay



Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 259

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get the feeling that Blue enjoys doing something that she is good at.

I used to sell cigarettes. I was very good at it. This doesn't seem too difficult, after all nicotine practically sells itself, but there were nuances to the whole process. It wasn't just about keeping the customer hooked on cigarettes but affecting their addiction and habitual patterns so that they would buy cigarettes from me. I would remember all of my customers who were regular smokers, I'd remember their brands, how many they'd buy at a time, and I'd actually smoked at least one of every kind of cigarette we sold so I could give good advice on smoothness and flavour. I don't even smoke cigarettes often (I probably average five cigarettes a week) so it wasn't like it was an addict selling to addicts, this was almost purely predatory. I'd even have methods for people who wanted to quit. I'd tell them that if they asked for cigarettes from me again I'd give them three "are you sure" responses until they confirmed the third time. Nobody ever even made it to the third time, and they always trusted my intentions fully when I was really leading them into a false-sense of security so they'd relapse more easily. On one hand I felt and still obviously do feel guilt about selling what is essentially addictive poison. On the other hand it was the best retail experience of my life, even better than selling pot or baked goods. I loved it, and would still be doing it if I hadn't left that job due to issues with a change in management. The compulsion of competence is a powerful force. When Blue stabs people with a pitchfork or seduces men in to signing their souls away she feels a euphoric rush that pushes aside her morals and other unassociated emotions. Her friendship with Fushia is strong enough to push away this compulsion, if only for brief moments.

Many soldiers experience something similar. There are probably many immoral or otherwise distasteful professions that attract otherwise good people through the allure of competence.

EDIT: @Echo: Who said anything about hate speech? I said the upload lacked context, which it did. Also the fembots are being produced and sold in what is presumably the United States (or else why does Sam live there?) so why are they depicting activities that haven't been condoned on this continent for centuries, or haven't been condoned here ever? Yes, women should be mad about FGM and foot-binding, but how does attacking the factory workers have anything to do with that? Have they been butchering genitals and binding-feet off-panel? How would the bots even know if they were? If Clio wanted to be responsible maybe she could have included the information that foot-binding is only seen as culturally acceptable on the other side of the fucking planet. The same place where unborn girls are selectively killed at a ridiculously high rate.

As for the whole "can anyone be legitimately happy as a slave" predicament, I feel like that would just be a rehash of the House Elf debates. I really don't miss those arguments.
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Posts: 614

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jabberjay wrote:
Who said anything about hate speech?


Jabberjay also wrote:
How does using out-of-contex information to transform fembots into clearly-disposable soldiers in her struggle make Clio "good" under any definition of the term? That act reeked far more of "terrorist" than it did "freedom fighter."


Hate speech/incitement laws are under anti-terrorism powers where I am, and that looks like what you're accusing Clio of. Hate speech/incitement is the closest match, because it is clearly *not* gaining control over them - that would just be a new control system being uploaded, the fembots were given information and enough freedom to make their own decisions. Giving people information about how they and others are treated - including, crucially, trafficking - which is *exactly* what is being done to the fembots by the employees at the factory - fembots who are obviously *not* considered disposable given the treatment of Pxsomethingsomething by the Sisterhood - is not the problem. A large corporation controlling, packaging, transporting and selling women *is* the problem. Said women being "shut down", just as you wished, and - it seems - destroyed - is a fairly obvious confirmation of that.

Quote:
Eh, yeah but this one's already proven they don't argue in good faith, so there isn't much point in delving into the details.


Should have remembered this, really, before I bothered pointing all this out.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6460

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol, yeeeeeah.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3199

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
just because blue enjoys torturing the souls of the damned - who she has mentioned are terrible people and "scum of the earth" and has no reason to feel sympathetic towards - doesnt mean she's incapable of feeling sympathy at all.

this isn't the first time she's felt sympathy for someone while looking at their history.


As I've said any number of times (it's as if I don't know that I'm repetitive; it's as if I don't know that I'm repetitive), the fact that Blue is evil has nothing to do with whether or not she's a nice person.

That said, over the past year or so, she's grown increasingly distant, building a wall around herself with her executive attire (to use a really clumsy metaphor). Blue as she used to be (the happy-go-lucky Booth Babe) would probably have warmed up (no pun intended) to Abby more quickly, for instance. So it goes.
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JazmynGrey



Joined: 29 Jul 2013
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronald wrote:


As I've said any number of times (it's as if I don't know that I'm repetitive; it's as if I don't know that I'm repetitive), the fact that Blue is evil has nothing to do with whether or not she's a nice person.

That said, over the past year or so, she's grown increasingly distant, building a wall around herself with her executive attire (to use a really clumsy metaphor). Blue as she used to be (the happy-go-lucky Booth Babe) would probably have warmed up (no pun intended) to Abby more quickly, for instance. So it goes.


She's grown distant as people often do when their comfort/solace/companion is taken away from her. She's still grieving the loss of Fuchsia, made worse in a way because she is not wholly gone, but happier without Blue. I think its a common thing for many people to wall yourself off while you're still in pain.

That said, I don't know that she would have been any more likely to accept Abby while she and Fuchsia were together because women who have been together for a long time in friendship can be awful to "outsiders" and while Abby is another devil girl her attitude clearly does not fit with the attitudes that Fuchsia and Blue portrayed at the time in the booth or in the stabby pits. (forgive my awful punctuation.... its not my friend)
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3199

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: August 3, 2014: No going back Reply with quote

I thought I had some kind of point to make about Blue via this strip but upon further contemplation, it turned out that I didn't. So it goes. I'll post it anyway. Smile


http://sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-05-10

I like how Blue, on a second's notice, shifts from nonchalant whistling to feral growling. That shows adaptability.
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Posts: 614

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
lol, yeeeeeah.


Some day, I'll learn. ;-D

As for Blue "building a wall around herself with her 'executive attire'", I think that's more to do with (a) her job now being about Soul Audits rather than temptation, and more importantly (b) a big shift in emphasis in Sinfest, with Blue and Fuchsia now wearing sensible clothes, even their replacement Abby wearing more than just underwear, and scantily-clad women (strip club dancers, fembots, the girls in the bomf district) are pretty much only seen in the context of being exploited. The latter being a kind of important point.
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wobster109



Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't go back, Blue.

You're the sole woman in an executive position in all of Sinfest. You're already a role model for young girls everywhere. Don't you let Fuchsia guilt you into trading all that away to be ordered about and leered at while making $2.13 an hour.
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