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August 10: Customer 3
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3448
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
'course, the only reason someone buying a fembot might be something immoral is that Milton's an incompetent idiot, just like everyone else at deviltech

giving an AI human-like values and pain receptors? really bad move


What I really want to know is, did he decide that, or is it company policy passed down by the Devil? It seems difficult to believe it would happen by accident.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wobster109 wrote:

8 of the first 10 US presidents owned slaves including George Washington. Now we look back on that, and we know it was an awful thing to do. But George Washington wasn't an exceptionally bad person for his time. He were merely ordinary, raised in a very different culture; his only flaw was failing to be exceptionally ahead of his time. We can say "that was horrible" without saying "therefore George Washington was a terrible person". You and I and everyone else, we all know he would not have owned slaves if he'd had the privilege of a modern upbringing.


He was part of slaving culture, and therefore part of that toxic environment. Oney Judge did not run away from his household and refuse to come back because the Washingtons were nice to her.

Owning slaves makes you a creepy person, no matter what time period you live in, because it is fundamentally wrong. It doesn't mean that you were right in accordance with your time period; it means you were wrong along with everyone else.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will now defer to Monkey's balls.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If more people deferred to my balls the world would be a better place.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

C-span would be much more entertaining to watch if we could hear shouts of, "The Gentleman from Wherever will yield to Monkey's Balls!"
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
'course, the only reason someone buying a fembot might be something immoral is that Milton's an incompetent idiot, just like everyone else at deviltech

giving an AI human-like values and pain receptors? really bad move


Except for the part where it's still stupid and gross and immoral to create a slave version of an entire class of people.

Seriously, think how utterly gross it would be to create a series of non-sentient but specifically black robots, using a whole bunch of white people's ideas of what black people should be in your design process, and then marketing and selling them in order to serve white people's needs.

FUCKING CREEPY AND WRONG. And dehumanizing to the real-life, living, breathing human beings you're making the just-for-my-pleasure-and-whim versions of.

Sentience is irrelevant to what side of the morality scale this absolutely falls on. You buy into that, and you're buying into the dehumanization of an entire class of human beings. You may be able to convince yourself that it's just such a small bitty thing on your part, because it's motivated by your own want rather than outright malice, but it would still be putting your -wants- above the very humanity of others. Your desire to own a caricature of a black person that acts as your personal slave is more important to you than just NOT DOING THAT, you racist asshole.

For the fembots to be in the same category as dildos and strokers and other such inert sex toys and tools, they'd have to lose a lot more than their sentience.

And I have a sick feeling that it's the very fact that they were designed to be fuckable that is making it hard for some people here to see the dehumanization of the whole damn thing. They're buying the sick caricature of women that the fembots were designed (by sick fucking Milton) to be. They're for sex, therefore nothing registers as wrong.

Fuckers.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9677

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
what if someone argues that their personhood is circumstantial


this is totally the better argument that could have existed about the fembots

the fembots are a narrative device and the current state of their personhood is crafted deliberately around the immorality of their use as an analogue to how society uses and objectifies women emphasis on the object part, as it is an issue of literally reducing women in one's mindset to an object, property, etc
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd just like to agree with the points that Rune in particular has been making. Especially the bit about trying to replace women with something very-similar-but-controllable not being a neutral act.

Now, are we going to have these threads for all the but-I-really-want-a-fembot-because-no-human-is-ever-going-to-let-me-do-all-the-creepy-things-in-my-head types to out themselves on a regular basis? If so, can we schedule it or something? Because last time I looked this thread was only 3 pages long, and now I feel like I've missed out.
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Echo wrote:
I'd just like to agree with the points that Rune in particular has been making. Especially the bit about trying to replace women with something very-similar-but-controllable not being a neutral act.

I too would like to voice my agreement in this matter.

Echo wrote:
Now, are we going to have these threads for all the but-I-really-want-a-fembot-because-no-human-is-ever-going-to-let-me-do-all-the-creepy-things-in-my-head types to out themselves on a regular basis? If so, can we schedule it or something? Because last time I looked this thread was only 3 pages long, and now I feel like I've missed out.

I don't think it would make a difference, these "debates" just sort of naturally arise every now and then when we have a fembot thread. You come back the next day and it's five pages longer, surprise! We're having the same arguments all over again. Or similar ones, anyway.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oi, and now I'm getting ignored completely.

Anywhoo, Rune and Sam are definitely making really good points.
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd also like to belatedly agree with pretty much everything Samsally said, although had I actually engaged with anyone trying to push the "Buying a fembot and controlling her and making her engage in sexual practices that no human would or could consent to is kind of OK, isn't it? Somehow? Like don't I get points for not doing it to humans?" line, I'd never have been that patient or polite. And probably deployed the phrase "creepy weirdo" on at least a couple of occasions.

And yeah, I know this discussion comes round every few weeks with a fembot story, but I always feel like it all happens while I'm busy or asleep or something, and miss the juicy bits.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, thanks!

I always have to juggle 'be a responsible adult with a job' and 'someone on the internet said something i don't agree with must... type... response.......' and that can be tricky. S'usually why some of my responses take so long, I do actually try not to be a complete asshole most of the time.
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, that's a really terrible argument. Comparing it to black robots?

If deviltech were competent they'd be making mandroids, too.

stripeypants wrote:

What I really want to know is, did he decide that, or is it company policy passed down by the Devil? It seems difficult to believe it would happen by accident.


right-o

human-like minds are a really tiny sliver of the pie of possible minds

they generally only happen by accident once in any particular place, and we've already filled that slot
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does "I don't agree with anyone ever" really count as an argument?
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do you want me to write you an essay about why that's not a fair comparison

if so please send $5 by paypal because I don't feel like doing it for free
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