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It's a dog eat dog world.
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HamletSr



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 241
Location: The Illustrated Guide to Diagnostic Tests

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
HamletSr wrote:
So you believe that animals have no rights? I think this is a rather extreme position.

I'm not sure what all you mean by "having rights" in your question. I am saying I disagree with laws that protect animal rights.


Well, your entitled to your opinion. Thankfully, the majority doesn't agree with you. People who commit animal cruelty are sick fucks who ought to be locked up. I have said it before and I will say it again:



FUR IS MURDER I WOULD RATHER GO NAKED THAN EAT FUR
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Uncle Bebby



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 384

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

right, you hate eating fur, we get that.

that's why god made tube steak.

cruel acts against animals are bad, simply low class.

when I see a dog or a cat beaten, stabbed, and set on fire, they don't deserve it, they are just being dogs and cats.
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HamletSr



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 241
Location: The Illustrated Guide to Diagnostic Tests

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benny, I don't know a gentle way to put this, so I am just going to say it. . .


BEING A KOALA YOU SHOULD NOT BE PARTICIPATING IN THIS HUMAN DISCUSSION BECAUSE YOU ARE BIASED. WHAT IS TUBE STEAK?!?
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HamletSr:

Your post reads like I didn't make my position clear.

I consider it immoral to be cruel to animals. I would never do so, save in self-defense, and I agree with you that people who do are sick fucks.

But to legislate against it is to declare that laws enforcing morality are A-ok, which means there's nothing at all wrong with banning flag burning, gay marriage, or even abortion, so long as it follows majority opinion. I find all such laws, even the ones whose morality I agree with, to be reprehensible.
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maniac_wolfman



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All laws are simply enforced majority moral opinion.
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 2439

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. They really aren't.

Goawaynowplsthx.
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Drui



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 541
Location: 'Jersey :}

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
The government should not be in the business of forcing the beliefs of some of its citizens onto others.

So it should be okay for somebody to shoot my pet just because they don't believe animals have rights? That shouldn't be punishable?

Sojobo wrote:
Do you honestly think it should be outlawed?

When the hell did I ever say anything about outlawing different beliefs?

And PLEASE explain to me how all laws are NOT enforced majority moral opinion.
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HamletSr



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 241
Location: The Illustrated Guide to Diagnostic Tests

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, animal cruelty laws recognise the fundamental rights of animals not to be treated with cruelty, and/or the responsibilties of their owners incur by owning them.

Your position is abundantly clear, you do not think that we should have animal cruelty laws. As I said before, this is an extreme position that not very many people share, because they recognise the fundamental right of animals to live lives free from abuse by those that "own" them.

You sir, are obviously no lawyer. From a legal standpoint, the problems with gay marriage and flag burning are NOT equivilent to animal cruelty laws. Exactly what rights are the animal cruelty laws abridging? Freedom of expression? Right to bear arms? Do you think that animal torturers are a protected group under the law?

Do not answer any of those questions. It would be much better if you were to just stop your ill informed and misguided blatherings.
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drui wrote:
So it should be okay for somebody to shoot my pet just because they don't believe animals have rights? That shouldn't be punishable?

Of course it should be punishable. It is your pet, not the sick fuck's. It should not be punishable if he shoots his own pet.

Drui wrote:
When the hell did I ever say anything about outlawing different beliefs?

Drui wrote:
What gives him the right to believe the aforementioned?

You questioned his right to have a particular belief. Saying he doesn't have such a right means it should be fine to outlaw it.

Drui wrote:
And PLEASE explain to me how all laws are NOT enforced majority moral opinion.

It is not illegal to murder because people agree it is wrong to murder people. It is illegal because it is a law necessary for a society to function. "You don't kill me, I don't kill you." It is a social contract. Same goes for liberty and property.
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Krazy Stixx



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 568

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe since dogs can't fully understand the possible risks involved in being a "bite dog", they shouldn't be used in that way.
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maniac_wolfman



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 628

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:

Drui wrote:
And PLEASE explain to me how all laws are NOT enforced majority moral opinion.

It is not illegal to murder because people agree it is wrong to murder people. It is illegal because it is a law necessary for a society to function. "You don't kill me, I don't kill you." It is a social contract. Same goes for liberty and property.


Killing is wrong only when we agree that it is morally wrong.

If I went to another country and shot a man dead I would be imprisoned. However if a war was on I would not be.

It is not considered wrong to kill a man during war because a majority of people believe that contries have the right to specify a particular time for killing.

If I was convicted for murder I would be killed. People would consider my death was right because a majority of people believe that the death penalty is not morally wrong.

Some people DO believe that the death penalty is wrong, this is an opinion. Because a majory has another opinion that is the one that is enforced.

Murderers are of the opinion that killing is always acceptable. The majority of the populace thinks killing isn't always acceptable. The majority moral opinion is enforced.
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Drui



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
Saying he doesn't have such a right means it should be fine to outlaw it.

That is so completely a non sequitur that it makes my head spin.

I.
Never.
Brought.
Up.
The.
Subject.
Of.
Laws.

Do you know what the word "spiritual" means?


Anyway, if you all will excuse me, I now have to go to work and deal with that maggot dog. *shiver*
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maniac_wolfman wrote:
Killing is wrong only when we agree that it is morally wrong.

I assure you that a majority of people will agree that you are wrong about this, which, by your own logic, means you are wrong.

Drui wrote:
Do you know what the word "spiritual" means?

A word you used AFTER what we are quoting back and forth. I cannot read the future, and did not know when I quoted you that you were going to later use this word.
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Lemontree



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3298

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skipping over the rest of the topic which you all are debating quite thoroughly and "eloquently"... Here's just a comment on one part.

Murder is both a moral law, and a law of necessity.

Sojobo's got a point about a society needing to enforce punishment against murderers because it aids in a continuance of a species/race/class.

In a war, murder is understood because it is a matter of domination.. It is the last resort in a debate. Kill the opposing view and your point will be made.

But yes, it is also morally wrong to kill a member of your own species because a species ultimate goal is survival. And I'd also like to personally live out my days in peace and happiness without worrying that my time will be cut short by a crazy. *shrug*
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HamletSr



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 241
Location: The Illustrated Guide to Diagnostic Tests

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow disco jesus, you ARE eloquent
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