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In the name of religious freedom.....WTF?!
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dazedb42



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2348
Location: Margaret River, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:15 am    Post subject: In the name of religious freedom.....WTF?! Reply with quote

Quote:
MUSLIM taxi drivers in Minnesota have declared jihad on duty-free, refusing to carry passengers who are carrying alcohol.

The ban has created chaos at Minneapolis-St Paul international airport, where about three-quarters of the 900 taxi drivers are Somali and mostly Muslim.

Airport officials have begun working with taxi drivers to install colour-coded lights on taxi roofs to indicate which are alcohol friendly and which are not.

The lights are expected to be introduced by the end of the year.

Ali Culed, a Somali Muslim who's been driving an airport cab for eight years, said the ban was "a religious issue".

"I cannot force anybody to change their belief, but not in my cab," he said. "I don't want the guilt. I just want to be an innocent person." Eva Buzek, a flight attendant who grew up in Poland, said that when she asked a driver to be careful with her suitcase because it had wine in it, he dumped her bags and told other drivers not to carry her either. Four more refused her service.

She said the ban went against American values.

"I don't want to impose my beliefs on anyone else," she told the Minneapolis Star Tribune. "That's why I'm in this country, because of the freedom.

"What's going to be next? Do I have to cover my head?"

Airport spokesman Pat Hogan said drunken passengers had not had trouble getting a cab, just the ones who let on that they're carrying a bottle. "It's slowly grown over the years to the point that it's become a significant customer service issue for us."

The Koran strictly forbids buying, selling, drinking or carrying alcohol.

There are an estimated five to seven million Muslims in the US. They have never had political representation in Congress, though that could be about to change this November thanks to Minnesota's Keith Ellison, a Muslim convert who is a Democrat frontrunner in Congressional mid-term elections next month.




Well I can't say I am suprised but has this gone too far? What's next?
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BoySetsFire



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 374
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cartoons like that perpetuate racaial and religious tension.
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dazedb42



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2348
Location: Margaret River, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that what you got out of that cartoon? The terrorists have won then. =/ Personally I see it as more of a dig at the taxi industry rather than being ethnicly provocative.

Is a taxi classified as a public space or is it the property of the company that owns it? Does a driver/employee of the campany have the right to enforce their social beliefs on a member of the public. In a country that prides itselves on freedoms this is a slap in the face. It is discrimination against those who carry alchohol based on a purely religious point of view. What is next? Too drunk to drive? Don't bother calling a taxi as they wont pick you up if you have been drinking as it disturbs their religion.


It's not the cartoon that perpetuates the racial and religious tension it's allowing these taxi drivers the right to refuse fares based solely on their religious intolerance. That's the kicker not the cartoon.
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andrew



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is a taxi classified as a public space or is it the property of the company that owns it? Does a driver/employee of the campany have the right to enforce their social beliefs on a member of the public. In a country that prides itselves on freedoms this is a slap in the face. It is discrimination against those who carry alchohol based on a purely religious point of view. What is next? Too drunk to drive? Don't bother calling a taxi as they wont pick you up if you have been drinking as it disturbs their religion.


Almost all taxi drivers are independent contractors who own sole proprietorship businesses driving their taxis; they are bound by the rules and regulations of the company whose name they are operating under (and, therefore, subject to their fees and dues), but are otherwise free to operate as they see fit. They either own their own cabs or rent them from the company whose name they drive under.

This isn't discrimination; this is an exercise in freedom. The cab drivers are their own personal business identities not subsidized by or associated with the government in any way; hence, their refusal to carry passengers based on arbitrary criteria is not a reflection on the government. Taxis are no more public space than your car is.

And yes, businesses are allowed to enforce their own standards for conduct and refuse service based on any number of factors, provided that the law does not indicate otherwise. This is why restaurants can have signs that say "No shirt, no shoes, no service," bars & clubs can have bouncers who can forcibly remove you, and almost every establishment in America reserves the right to refuse service to anyone.

I applaud these cab drivers, and hope they stick to their guns.

Edit to add:

I love the moron lady quoted in the article:

Quote:
She said the ban went against American values.

"I don't want to impose my beliefs on anyone else," she told the Minneapolis Star Tribune. "That's why I'm in this country, because of the freedom.

"What's going to be next? Do I have to cover my head?"


If a cab were to require you to, yes. Kind of like, oh, you know...dress requirements for nice restaurants, dance clubs, upscale bars, etc.

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Amilam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a non debate. If they don't want customers that are serving alcohol it's completely their right. Get another cab. The sky is not falling. It would be different if they were working in a large facility and refused to sell something out of religious duties... oh like say birth control. Which religion resorted to doing that again? I wonder if any reports ran the first line of: Christians declare Pogrom on birth control? Embarassed
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AfyonBlade



Joined: 16 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andrew wrote:

This isn't discrimination; this is an exercise in freedom.


Definitely. If their religion states they can't carry alcohol, there better not be any controversy over it just because some Americans think they should be able to. And the lady making it sound as if they're trying to impose their religion on us? How do they feel about us trying to make them carry alcohol?
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Dro



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree it is their right to refuse a passenger if their religion forbids it. The potential issue I have with it is like the example from Amilam, of pharmacists refusing to provide Plan B contraception. In some small towns, there may be just one pharmacy, and so the personal beliefs of one person can control the actions of many.

Likewise, the article says 3/4s of the cab drivers are Somali Muslisms. Cab driving has interesting economics, in that the city agrees to provide a limited set of taxi medallions in order to reduce competition. Because of this, medallions are often controlled by allied groups or consortiums. In this case, the city provides medallions with the expectation that citizens will be able to avail themselves of the service. If cab after cab is bypassing a person because they are carrying a twelve-pack of wine, then it does become an issue, in that the city's expectation of equal service is not satisfied.
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Marik



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject: Article III: ah dont have tew pick up no nee-groes Reply with quote

Quote:
She said the ban went against American values.


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, take our fucking Beer in any fucking taxicab we fucking want you fucking moslem Fucks, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somehow I missed that article ... did Ben Franklin stick that in?
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AfyonBlade



Joined: 16 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solution: Don't tell them. If they ask, lie. Americans should have no problem about lying if it gets them booze.
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Lasairfiona



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regular 'ol market economics will fix this. Watch, almost all newly hired taxi drivers will probably have to sign a contract about carrying alcohol.

That or the current taxi drivers will get sick of not making their usual wages. I applaude those who stick to their religious beliefs but they better not be rude about it (ie dumping the bags. I'd be pissed too).

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mouse



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if they come up with special lights so customers can see which cabs would refuse them if they had alcohol, i do see market forces taking car of this. because the customers can then decide whether they want to patronize these cabs, regardless of whether they have alcohol with them at the time. i predict there may also be a boom in airport shuttle business in minneapolis/st. paul.
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Xilonen



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dazedb42 wrote:
It is discrimination against those who carry alchohol based on a purely religious point of view. What is next? Too drunk to drive? Don't bother calling a taxi as they wont pick you up if you have been drinking as it disturbs their religion.


article wrote:
Airport spokesman Pat Hogan said drunken passengers had not had trouble getting a cab, just the ones who let on that they're carrying a bottle.


the koran forbids muslims from drinking and carrying alcohol, not carrying others who have been drinking. by refusing service they are not imposing their beliefs on others, they are refusing to compromise their religion because some idiot wants him to carry his booze. just like if your friends ask you to carry their pot in your back pack; it's against the law for you to carry it, regardless of who it belongs to. same goes for a muslim under islamic law.
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Michael



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AfyonBlade wrote:
Solution: Don't tell them. If they ask, lie. Americans should have no problem about lying if it gets them booze.


but lying is actually okay, if it gets you booze
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ForgottenCode



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have plenty of Muslim friends, as well as a former alcoholic who no longer drinks. When we go out, we don't force any alcohol on them, obviously. They have their fun and we have ours.

And thus, I too applaud these drivers. They're sticking to their guns, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

America's a free country. Therefore, people are free to set what they will or won't tolerate in their vehicles.
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