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"Will the next election be hacked?"
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Fhqwhgads



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 1337
Location: sfcaus

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/13/174653/746
As a network engineer? No way do I trust this crap.

EDIT: Here's the whitepaper and video on the Princeton hack.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone even marginally familiar with computer security knows that technology as we know it is not ready for something as prone to being fucked up as an election. The voter-reviewed papertrail mouse mentioned won't work because it'd be simple enough to make a program that printed one thing and tallied another.

Personally, I'm registered as a permanent absentee voter. It's far from perfect (they can get "lost" and it's easier to screw up and not get counted, among other things), but it's better than voting on a touchscreen.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Anyone even marginally familiar with computer security knows that technology as we know it is not ready for something as prone to being fucked up as an election. The voter-reviewed papertrail mouse mentioned won't work because it'd be simple enough to make a program that printed one thing and tallied another.

Personally, I'm registered as a permanent absentee voter. It's far from perfect (they can get "lost" and it's easier to screw up and not get counted, among other things), but it's better than voting on a touchscreen.


well, you could do the same thing with a scanned ballot - write software that would tally something other than was voted. but you still have the paper ballot, so you can do a hand count. the voter-reviewed thing i mentioned stays with the machine (it's not a receipt), so they can also be hand-counted.

now, whether or not they will be is another question.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read somewhere that they made hand counts illegal in Florida, but I can't confirm this because googling "florida hand count law" nets you 14.8 million hits... and I'm not interested in using my lunch break for that. Wink

Anyone know, off hand?
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mouse



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't. i do know that here, you have to get a court to declare it legal to do a recount, and you have to pay for it (should you, as a private citizen, want to demand a recount). so it would be difficult to get done, in any case.
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Michael



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

see, whatever system you come up with, people 'll work at understanding how it works and find a way to work around it. So what you need to do, if you want to stop people from being able to cheat, is devise something so complicated that nobody understands it.
Of course then you lose the ability to check its functioning too...
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Three flavors of secure that I use:

Blowfish
Twofish
Rijndael (or Advanced Encryption Standard as it's now known)
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Twister87
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How voting actually works

"After voting, the ballot papers are collected and taken to a furnace. There they are burned to fire a boiler which provides steam for a turbine, which drives a generator and produces electricity. The electricity is then conveyed to the parliament building by a special power line, where it is directed into a forty-watt lightbulb in the gentsí lavatory. If you walk behind the building late at night, you can look up and see a dimly lit window and be reassured that your vote does matter."

Taken from a little story/poem by Michael Leunig.

And so true.
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Fhqwhgads



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: sfcaus

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
see, whatever system you come up with, people 'll work at understanding how it works and find a way to work around it.

Depressing but true. I caught myself wondering today whether it would be worse to vote and have it miscounted or to not vote at all... Confused

OTOH, I'm told Mexico has a pretty good check-and-balance system in place (despite the dramawhoring over this last election). Too lazy to research it now though.
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Mini J



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's wrong with the tried-and-true method of paper ballots? In Canada the ballots are identical across the entire country (except for the names of the people running, that varies by riding), and they are exclusively of the 'draw an X in the box next to who you want to vote for' variety. Even with that, the votes are entirely counted within a few hours. Why can't the US do this too? Why does each district have a different mechanism for voting? That's something I've never quite understood.

edit: Here is how our process works. The ballot is shown in box 5.
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Michael



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mini J wrote:
What's wrong with the tried-and-true method of paper ballots? In Canada the ballots are identical (except for the names of the people running, that varies by riding), and they are exclusively of the 'draw an X in the box next to who you want to vote for' variety. Even with that, the votes are entirely counted within a few hours. Why can't the US do this too? Why does each district have a different mechanism for voting? That's something I've never quite understood.

edit: Here is how our process works. The ballot is shown in box 5.


Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy

That's a good idea mini-J! Let's set up a delegation to help the US set up a democracy!
(we'll leave when it's up and running, I promise)
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll bring the weed! Very Happy
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

honestly, i wish some independent organization _would_ step in and oversee the honesty and accuracy of this election.

and if it's canadians, at least there won't be a language problem....much.

will you bring beer as well?
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kame wrote:
I'll bring the weed! Very Happy



I'll bring even more.
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Him



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: On edge

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilgore wrote:
Him wrote:
Feiticeira wrote:
Him wrote:
Kilgore wrote:
If the rest of the population (could you call them the silent majority?) isn't voting out of disgust, they deserve the government they get.
Well, they aren't actively acting to overthrow the goverment.


Neither are you, you just wish you were.
Hey, I voted. Besides I do, somewhat.


You can't actively overthrow the government, somewhat. Either you're doing it or you aren't. "Sticking it to the man" by parking illegally, making obscene gestures at police officers, and posting long shitty essays on online forums doesn't make you a revolutionary, it just makes you a jackass.
Revolutionize your everyday life. Except for the occasional vandalism, I mostly just agitate and educate. General support is a good thing to have if you have revolution in mind, you know.
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