Sinfest Forum Index Sinfest
welcome to the fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Basic errors cause of much malpractice
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10089
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:12 pm    Post subject: Basic errors cause of much malpractice Reply with quote

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15109266/

Original journal piece

http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/abstract/145/7/488
_________________
...if a single leaf holds the eye, it will be as if the remaining leaves were not there.
http://12ozlb.blogspot.com Now in book form: http://amzn.to/14E6OFy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Desire



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 566
Location: AK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find this funny in light that many HMOs limit the tests doctors can do now. Some doctors get creative to get around them, but even then, there's always the risk the medical insurance company will refuse the test.
_________________
"Her kisses left something to be desired -- the rest of her. "
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10089
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking too how much insurance and healthcare cost really affected decisions about test and follow exams. I can say from experience that my own primary care provider would more readily recommend testing and follow-ups during times when I had health insurance vs. times I didn't. I figure there's also other immeasurable intangibles (namely lying) who's effects can't truly be gauged, only guessed at.

Mind you none of this means that the original numbers would be greatly changed, even if further , more detail examination of malpractice cases was done.
_________________
...if a single leaf holds the eye, it will be as if the remaining leaves were not there.
http://12ozlb.blogspot.com Now in book form: http://amzn.to/14E6OFy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
AfyonBlade



Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 681
Location: The Middle of Everywhere

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My sister had a kidney stone, and her doctors, because they didn't want to give her these expensive tests, said she had gonorrhea. Luckily, my father was able to talk with the doctors for about 2 minutes and convince them it was a kidney stone.

I mean, really, can you imagine the treatment differences between a kidney stone and gonorrhea?
_________________
Knowledge is Power.
Power Corrupts.
Study.
Be Evil.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Omega F



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 408

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just at a lecture that presented research that demonstrated that in the vast majority of malpractice cases, the doctor has done no wrong. Most of mistakes that physicians made went unnoticed, or at least unclaimed. The big difference in most of the cases was the patient's perception of the physician. In other words, Dr. Asshole has a lot more malpractice claims than Dr. Goodlove.

One example the presenter gave was a case he had with an Australian man who wanted to sue a surgeon for some reason or another (he went a lot more in depth, I just wasn't paying attention as well as I should have). They investigated it (before a claim was made), and found out that the surgeon had made no mistakes at all, but the error lay with his primary care physician. His response: Oh... But I like her! I'm not gonna sue her! Obviously, one case among thousands, but it illustrates the point they wished to show.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
E-boy



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1552
Location: Virginia (Much barfiness)

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read a lovely interview with a neurologist in Discover a while back (maybe a month or two ago?).

Even damn fine doctors are at a point now where they try to screen patients. They try to avoid the ones they feel are likely to sue because, most doctors now feel, it's only a matter of time until they are sued.

It's a shame too, because invasive procedures are all about risk mediation and management. There is no such thing as a risk free surgery, and even a good doctor that does everything right can end up sued when a patient gets a surgical infection.

Life takes risk tolerance. That means bucking up when you get screwed. I wouldn't sue over a "Risk", unless I wasn't informed of it prior to agreeing to a procedure or to having it done. As, due to legalities, doctors have blurbs covering this for nearly any procedure you can think of, it's rather unlikely they'd fail to brief me, or if they did it would be something common sense, like the risk of surgical infection, which frankly goes without saying.

I wish there was a better way of evaluating potential malpractice suits. It's been good for the military though. Used to be we had crap doctors, but the high cost of practicing medicine as a civilian has driven some damn good doctors into the Military.
_________________
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid" ~ SGT John Stryker from "Sands of Iwo Jima".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
MsFrisby



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3966
Location: a quiet little corner of crazy

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suing a doctor for cutting off the wrong foot is proper. Suing a doctor for leaving surgical tools inside of you is proper. Suing a doctor for misdiagnosis is tricky. It kind of depends on how off they were, what tests they ordered and how much damage resulted due to the misdiagnosis.
_________________
A person's character is their destiny.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Flion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 589
Location: Don't look up! (Damn pigeons...)

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to mention how much the patient interfered with the process. Often times patients refuse recommended test or treatments, outright lie about their histories, and don't even get me started on the twits who can't have a surgery or transfusion for religious reasons. Then there's the lawyers looking for an angle, pressuring patients to sue for the least reason, and even advertising on TV, fergodssake! Fortunately, most patients are at least reasonable about their care. Still, many doctors are being forced out of practice or into HMO practice due to the high cost of dealing with the problem. Oh, and MsFris, I agree with your assessment but would like to add track record as a factor. If a doctor has been generally good but makes a major error once, should it kill their career? On the other hand, if a doctor has a long history of small mistakes but nothing serious, should they keep practicing? I'm not unbiased here, my current lady is an anesthesiologist. And I've worked around doctors for a long time; I was network support for University of Chicago Anesthesiology for awhile. Frankly, I wouldn't be a doctor even if I wasn't squeamish about sticking sharp things into people I'm not mad at; it's not worth the risk.
_________________
Halen wrote:
The reason that "people actually see the points people make" = "people agree with me" is because I. Am. Right!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
E-boy



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1552
Location: Virginia (Much barfiness)

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Fris on this one. People have VERY inflated expectations of Doctors. They're all too human.

I know more about most of the stuff I'm being treated for than the doctors that treat me. I don't pretend to have the understanding of the human body in general they do, nor do I have any requirement to invest years of my life in learning the general knowledge they have to maintain. I have the luxury of being able to concentrate on just what affects me, and the time to pursue learning more. Fortunately, to date, the Docs I've had have encouraged me to do my own research, and share it with them (they then either tell me whats wrong with the idea, or look into it on their own, which has resulted in a successful treatment program). Point is, it's a two way street and you HAVE to advocate on your own behalf, do your homework, and get second opinions. If you don't fully understand the risks of a given procedure ASK QUESTIONS.

If you do all this stuff and still get screwed? Talk to another doctor in the same field and use that to inform your decision to see a lawyer. As a consequence of the fact that lawyers are more interested in winning than in what the truth is, they'll lean toward legal action every time if they think they can pull it off. Unfair pressure on people trying to do the community a service, if you ask me.
_________________
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid" ~ SGT John Stryker from "Sands of Iwo Jima".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
sporko



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2890

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MsFrisby wrote:
Suing a doctor for cutting off the wrong foot is proper. Suing a doctor for leaving surgical tools inside of you is proper. Suing a doctor for misdiagnosis is tricky. It kind of depends on how off they were, what tests they ordered and how much damage resulted due to the misdiagnosis.


how about junior mints?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
MsFrisby



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3966
Location: a quiet little corner of crazy

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about junior mints? If they left junior mints in a patient during surgery? Yeah.. I think that'd be actionable.
_________________
A person's character is their destiny.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
sporko



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2890

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nevermind. i was attempting a humourous interjection via allusion to what's become a piece of american pop culture (the junior mint episode of seinfeld), but i think it fell flat.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
MsFrisby



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3966
Location: a quiet little corner of crazy

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry. I didn't watch more than 4 or 5 episodes of Seinfeld.
_________________
A person's character is their destiny.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Omega F



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 408

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The junior mint was left in through no fault of the physician, so I think no malpractice suit would be viable. Besides, who doesn't like a junior mint? It's chocolate, it's peppermint...IT'S DELICIOUS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Halen



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 1883
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MsFrisby wrote:
Suing a doctor for cutting off the wrong foot is proper. Suing a doctor for leaving surgical tools inside of you is proper. Suing a doctor for misdiagnosis is tricky. It kind of depends on how off they were, what tests they ordered and how much damage resulted due to the misdiagnosis.


I was in an interesting course on Tuesday. The guy was friends with a consultant who worked at two hospitals. He was a cutter - did amputations. One of the hospitals put an X on the leg he was supposed to cut off. The other hospital put it on the leg he was supposed to NOT cut off...

I also had some interesting graphs and stuff on the actual proven efficacy of medications on the current market and medical errors and such, but I don't have a scanner at home, so I can't show you. If I'm super-bored at work I'll type it all up and stuff Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group