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Tat is a Christian?
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Yarko



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I gave a shit, I thought what he said made a lot of sense.

Wait... Hold on.... Nope. Still don't give a shit.
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Teh Digital Dragon



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 1888
Location: THE WORLD OF LARNING.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh wow, feigning indifference on the internet? You're shifting some mother-fucking paradigms right there man.
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Yarko



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think a higher power/deity/delicious noodle exists, just because it makes sense to me that one does. I can see that a little easier than I can "random shit = poof, I'm here". So yeah, God.

This is the laziest and most moronic argument ever. If you want to call that comment "judgemental" so be it.

First of all, truth is not determined by what YOU think makes sense. Sorry to burst your happy little comfy bubble.

Second, and yes, I am going to play the role of "hardcore atheist" here, to take your current morality, which is probably commendable and far superior to anything that the Bible has to offer, and map it into a few passages in the New Testament and ignore the rest of the beastly bullshit is just playing to the mainstream of "ooo! I gots to love teh bible cuz its lots of good and shiz!" There is no reason to respect a book that is a majority of crap because there are a few stolen good ideas in there. Trust me. The eastern religions had all the ideas earlier and did them tons better (without all the public stonings and eternal torment wet dreams).

Third, I fail to see how the idea that we all just popped into existence is any more difficult to swallow than the idea that some super being just happened to exist for all eternity, then suddenly, for no apparent reason since he seemed to be doing just fine on his own, he/she/it decided to set up a world full of BILLIONS of people and goodness and bullshit and disease and plane hijackings and war and then just left it to rot. How can a being just exist for all eternity? If he didn't, how could he have just popped into existence? Your "solution" answers no riddles. I fail to see why this explanation makes more sense to you. Please, elaborate if you can. All you are presenting is an argument from ignorance which means "I dunno, so goddidit!" or "So yeah, god." Show me the money or just admit you are living a lame fantasy.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9556

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:25 am    Post subject: roxxor ur godboxxor Reply with quote

It's great that you're indeed playing the hardxcore atheist role in these discussions, but I'm sure you see where Whup's post and belief falls into none of the contradictions that are provoking ire against today's token forum evangelist. Whup is actually just espousing a belief, rather than trying to righteously mallet it down our throats and urinate on our epistemological standpoints in the process.

Iiiiiiiiin fact, he's kind of running the opposite tact:

Quote:
I don't know the truth, and since it's something I won't find out until I'm dead, I don't pretend to know everything about it.
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Bart



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1572

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yarko, you're just as arrogant and self righteous as Mellowfish with the added flavor of Troll.

Sure you won't shove aside logic as easily as Mellow would, but I haven't seen much of it in between all the flaming. As for your response to WhupAs.

1. First is not determined on what he thinks and he never claimed so. Maybe you should reread all those post stating that God can neither be proven or disproven, so he's allowed to believe in both. And he sure is allowed when he calls his belief faith and doesn't go around trying to sell it as the only thruth. Incidentially that's what you are doing with the none excistence of God.

2. WhupAs has already answered this point, I recommend rereading his post and thinking about it instead of going ballistic anytime a religious person interacts with you.

3. Yes argument of Ignorance from WhupAsses part, but once again, he's free to believe what he want's. Your side isn't provable either.
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WhupAs101



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 243

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yarko wrote:
And WhupAs101, if you posted that internet handjob under another profile, shame.

Yarko wrote:
This is the laziest and most moronic argument ever. If you want to call that comment "judgemental" so be it.

First of all, truth is not determined by what YOU think makes sense. Sorry to burst your happy little comfy bubble.

Second, and yes, I am going to play the role of "hardcore atheist" here, to take your current morality, which is probably commendable and far superior to anything that the Bible has to offer, and map it into a few passages in the New Testament and ignore the rest of the beastly bullshit is just playing to the mainstream of "ooo! I gots to love teh bible cuz its lots of good and shiz!" There is no reason to respect a book that is a majority of crap because there are a few stolen good ideas in there. Trust me. The eastern religions had all the ideas earlier and did them tons better (without all the public stonings and eternal torment wet dreams).

Third, I fail to see how the idea that we all just popped into existence is any more difficult to swallow than the idea that some super being just happened to exist for all eternity, then suddenly, for no apparent reason since he seemed to be doing just fine on his own, he/she/it decided to set up a world full of BILLIONS of people and goodness and bullshit and disease and plane hijackings and war and then just left it to rot. How can a being just exist for all eternity? If he didn't, how could he have just popped into existence? Your "solution" answers no riddles. I fail to see why this explanation makes more sense to you. Please, elaborate if you can. All you are presenting is an argument from ignorance which means "I dunno, so goddidit!" or "So yeah, god." Show me the money or just admit you are living a lame fantasy.


No, it wasn't me. I think it's cool that I'm not the only one that thinks that way (it feels that way sometimes), thus the "awesome". Really can't prove that, so, yeah.

Me throwing that little speech out there was more or less to just toss my own beliefs into the mix, something other than "hardcore_____". I wasn't making an argument, I wasn't saying that "I gots to love teh bible cuz its lots of good and shiz!", I didn't try to offer any solution. I was just saying, "Hey, this is what makes sense to me, look at me, believing in stuff". I think the most judgemental thing I said was "stop generalizing each other, hardcore people". I really don't see how it came off as me wanting to prove how right I am or how wrong anyone else was.

I know I'm not going to be a big Sinfest forum-star by taking this approach, but I usually try to avoid getting involved in arguments with anyone on the series of tubes. I'm not even using the great "quote by quote" debate system everyone loves. I'm the last one that's going to get in there and tell you how wrong all your beliefs are and how I am the only person on the planet that understands the true nature of the universe. I even made it a point to say "I won't pretend to know". Unless your belief system includes child-molestation or hating the show Firefly (which is the only unforgivable sin), hey, you might be right, anyone who doubts you may be wrong. Cheers.

I don't think I need to defend my beliefs anywhere, ecspecially on this marvelous creation of Al Gore. I guess I'm just living a lame fantasy where everyone can have different ideas and not feel any need to prove themselves.

Sorry, but that's all the debating I can do. I really hope you're not as bitter towards any faith as your posts make you seem, it just seems like a lot of unneeded stress. Noones judging you, I'd really like to think you're not condeming me to the same fate as the Jack T Chicks of the world. But if that makes you happy, I guess, have at it.

I mean, I know some folks that need to kill gerbils just to orgasm. World takes all kinds.
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WhupAs101



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 243

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should point out actually that I am a pretty big know-it-all, it just applies to comics, games and movies more than anything else. Religion is sort of a free-zone.

I mean seriously, is there someone out there that doesn't enjoy Firefly? Man, I hope not.
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MellowFish



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 755
Location: The Train to Gloryland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yarko wrote:
First of all, truth is not determined by what YOU think makes sense. Sorry to burst your happy little comfy bubble.


Since people like socrates here, now would be a good time to bring up forms. Truth as we see it is a projection of absolute truth which is a perfect form out there in form land. As is everything else on earth. So saying that truth is or isn't determined by something is to say that your reading of the imperfect projection of it's true essence (which none have experienced) is more valid that his. This inability to know can be applied to any supposed knowledge in a form based world.

Someone who knows stop me if I get too far off, it's been a while since socrates for me.
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 2565
Location: Alba Nuadh

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MellowFish wrote:
Yarko wrote:
First of all, truth is not determined by what YOU think makes sense. Sorry to burst your happy little comfy bubble.


Since people like socrates here, now would be a good time to bring up forms. Truth as we see it is a projection of absolute truth which is a perfect form out there in form land. As is everything else on earth. So saying that truth is or isn't determined by something is to say that your reading of the imperfect projection of it's true essence (which none have experienced) is more valid that his. This inability to know can be applied to any supposed knowledge in a form based world.

Someone who knows stop me if I get too far off, it's been a while since socrates for me.


How about I stop you when you start making sense? Are you going metaphysical on our asses? If so, then bravo, you've signalled the death knell of this ridiculous debate.
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10878
Location: hiding the decline.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MellowFish wrote:
Yarko wrote:
First of all, truth is not determined by what YOU think makes sense. Sorry to burst your happy little comfy bubble.


Since people like socrates here, now would be a good time to bring up forms. Truth as we see it is a projection of absolute truth which is a perfect form out there in form land. As is everything else on earth. So saying that truth is or isn't determined by something is to say that your reading of the imperfect projection of it's true essence (which none have experienced) is more valid that his. This inability to know can be applied to any supposed knowledge in a form based world.

Someone who knows stop me if I get too far off, it's been a while since socrates for me.


This only holds true if the form land exists.
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Yarko



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
you're just as arrogant and self righteous as Mellowfish with the added flavor of Troll

Not really. I just play one on TV.
Quote:
First is not determined on what he thinks and he never claimed so. Maybe you should reread all those post stating that God can neither be proven or disproven, so he's allowed to believe in both. And he sure is allowed when he calls his belief faith and doesn't go around trying to sell it as the only thruth.

Cookies for all.
Quote:
Incidentially that's what you are doing with the none excistence of God.

The idea of the non existence of god can be supported by real evidence and observation. "Faith" is the antithesis to real evidence and observation. I don't need faith to come to the reasonable conclusions that the god of the bible was a human contrivance and that there is probably, way more than likely, god at all.
Quote:
WhupAs has already answered this point, I recommend rereading his post and thinking about it instead of going ballistic anytime a religious person interacts with you.

If I misunderstood a point, you get another cookie.
Quote:
Yes argument of Ignorance from WhupAsses part, but once again, he's free to believe what he want's.

I never said people aren't free to believe what they want. However, I don't think that it is best for humanity if people are allowed to believe what they want.
Quote:
Your side isn't provable either.
I don't have to be able to prove that there is no Santa Clause to make the pretty damned well safe conclusion that there is no Santa Clause. The same goes for the Loch Ness monster.

If you want to play in the grey area of "You can't prove it so nyah!" that's your choice. I prefer to deal with reality, logcial arguments, reasoning, and truth.

However, the nonexistence of god is proven as follows:

1. God cares about children and does not want them harmed
2. God has the ability to save children from harm
3. Children are regularly kidnapped, exploited, raped, tortured, and murdered.

Therefore

There is no god.

Simple, see? Any reasonable human being who does not have some sort of innate desire to hold out for the existence of a god would recegnize that observation of the world leads humanity to conclude that there is no god or at least to question god's existence once a god has been accepted as real. Any Christian or other god believer who can be honest (are there any of those around?) will admit that even they have had their doubts. It is not observation that leads to god belief, but devotion to a faith.

The nonexistence of god is proven daily. It is only people who need to keep a space open in their "hearts" for the god that they would love to have exist who refuse to see the evidence for what it is.

Again, you don't need to disprove that there are no invisible elephants in my backyard to conclude that such is the case.
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Bart



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1572

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm an agnostic myself, Yarko, I don't believe in a God. I do however think that anyone who does believe in God should be allowed to say so without getting flamed by the likes of you. Especially if it was in the way that WhupAs said it. Without wanting to convert anyone, without using his belief as a wall against rationality.

Faith can be a good thing Yarko. If you can not see that I don't think we should go on with any discussion.
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Yarko



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If people can't handle flaming opinions of their opinions, then perhaps they ought not post their opinions on the internet. Or post and then don't read the responses. I will continue to expose god belief for the folly that it is. In my way.
Quote:
Especially if it was in the way that WhupAs said it. Without wanting to convert anyone, without using his belief as a wall against rationality.

But god belief is irrational. You can't have it both ways.
Quote:
Faith can be a good thing Yarko. If you can not see that I don't think we should go on with any discussion.

In what way? Perhaps you can elaborate.
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The existence of a god is irrational, but not impossible.
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Bart



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've already stated that I do not want to debate you. We've already seen the forum charge a fundie stonewall, I don't think anyone wants to see part II : Athe´st Stonewall. I will however briefly adres your second point.

Marthin Luther King, Mother Teresa, were do you think they got their strength from ?
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