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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 2565
Location: Alba Nuadh

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, so I can ingest marijuana ... here comes a body stone!
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10878
Location: hiding the decline.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll turn the oven on.
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MellowFish



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 755
Location: The Train to Gloryland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inept Villain wrote:
A gentleman doesn't ship off unbabtized babies to a realm of perpetual nothingness. A gentleman holds his pinky out when he sips tea. A gentleman shuns violence, and shrugs off even the most venomous of insults without retaliation. God does none of these things. I am of the opinion that God is a dick. When I refer to God, I am analyzing the character. Not necessarily in the Sinfest comic, but the general personification of God in the bible.
If God expects me to be his obedient puppet, then he may as well have not made me at all. According to your interpretation of God's plan for me, my existence is pointless. With or without him. Your logic is somewhat nonsensical since there seems to be no purpose for me to even be LIVING a life if God already has one all set up for me... and your theology is immensely depressing in addition to that.

The fact of the matter is this: If I believe in God just so I can get into heaven, then is that not the very essence of cowardice? Have I not given up my decency and self-respect in exchange for the assured safety of my own pathetic hide? God, and you for that matter, offer me no choice at all. I think I would rather go to hell then cater to the whims of some almighty bully who is so intensely self-absorbed that he imposes all of his infinite cosmic power towards making me do what he says, or he'll beat my soul up and take my lunch money. For all eternity.
I know don't about you... but God feels pretty darn absent from earth. I haven't seen any evidence of his presence. I think I could handle not having the big baby around in the afterlife too. Assuming such a rose colored concept wasn't retarded to begin with.
If God were TRULY benign, he wouldn't be hateful enough to cause such vast amounts of misery purely for the gratification of his ego. Your dark god is not exactly my first choice for a role model.


"Demons believe...and tremble." Believing in God isn't the point. Accepting that you have not and will not live a good life on your own is. God's standards are high, but they are absolute and beyond reproof.

I wont even comment on the unbaptised baby thing except to say it is tradition and not biblically based. I dont know where babies go, but baptism is for mature believers and is only a sign of faith, not a magic spell.

God gave us free will and the incredible power of the human mind and look at what we've done with it. God does not cause suffering, people do. He just uses it for his purposes to make the best of a bad situation. If he were to stop the suffering, there would be no new converts, becuase people who are blindly content where they are never change. Just look at drunks and addicts.

Free will is free. We are not robots, christians are not the borg here to assimilate you into our collective. God gave free will to allow for complex and interesting relationships with his creation and to give them the opportunity to love him. An opportunity absent from angels, who have no free will. He knew full well that many would reject his offer and decided to deal with them the only way a loving god would: give them what they want in the end. Hell is not meant as a punishment for people, only for demons. For people, who are also immortal, it is the only place the people who chose to ignore god would not be in constant misery having to be around him.

Quote:


That too, is incredibly depressing. What matters to me is what I do now. At this moment. This is real, and as long as I am alive I give my own life meaning. If that meaning ends when I die, well, then i'm not around to care anymore am I? I try to be a good, reasonably honest person and live a pleasant life conductive with the life lessons i've had beat into me over the years. When this life ends, I don't expect any pearly gates to open up for me into a grand, super fun game time show paradise. I expect oblivion. I take more comfort in the void then I do the idea of a vain, bastardized God who wants everything his way just because he's bigger than me.


Frankly it is of no consequence what matters to you, unless it is god. And for the record: you sir are immortal just like the rest of us, so you will have plenty of time to ponder life's meaning after you leave earth. I will say it only once more in this post, you cannot live a truly good life on your own. A "good deed" is a hollow shell without god's will behind it.
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MellowFish



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 755
Location: The Train to Gloryland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For all the druggies out there who missed it, my second point is still valid: replacing god's comfort for those the world can offer is in direct violation of the first commandment. Doing drugs, have extra-marital sex, drinking heavily, eating gluttunously are all examples of this. Social drinking is a way to enjoy another of god's creations in a moderate manner, as is having sex with the woman you are married to or enjoying a fine meal. Doing any good thing in excess is wrong.
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 2565
Location: Alba Nuadh

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following that logic, we should also refrain from taking anti-depressents, pain medication, and the like. Would that not too alter our conciousness? I don't remember the command "Thou shalt do all things in moderation."

Do you have any clue how little sense you're making?
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rm



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 4073

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MellowFish wrote:
Doing any good thing in excess is wrong.


your faith is excessive, and the beliefs it is made up of have irrevocably altered your consciousness. this is your brain on god.
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Atlantean Relic



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, So what the deal with Christians and only one way of having sex between a man and woman, even if they're married?
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MellowFish



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 755
Location: The Train to Gloryland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atlantean Relic wrote:
Okay, So what the deal with Christians and only one way of having sex between a man and woman, even if they're married?

que?

What is the point you are trying to make here?

I see two possible subjects, let me see if I can hit on what you meant:

"only one way of having sex"

In a marriage, there are no rules for or against any kind of sexual acts.

"only...sex between a man and a woman":

homosexuality is placed alongside bestiality as destestable in the bible

If your point wasn't one of the above, please reiterate it more clearly
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Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9702
Location: I have to be somewhere? ::runs around frantically::

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I point out that there are only 2 commandents. Please stick to those. Thanks.

edit: Boy, this popcorn is getting old. New batch!

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After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael
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MellowFish



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 755
Location: The Train to Gloryland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:
May I point out that there are only 2 commandents. Please stick to those. Thanks.

edit: Boy, this popcorn is getting old. New batch!


There are two commandments that are listed by jesus as the greatest. All the others flow from them and it was the first of the 10 commandments I was referencing. I thought it was obvious.

PS: I had a whole bag of popcorm last night. It was delicious.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9674

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject: with much aplomb Reply with quote

MellowFish wrote:
Secondly, I never said tobbacco was bad for you, and it's not: in the same way alcohol isn't bad for you unless you use it too much. Smoking is bad for you, even in moderation.


That's a wonderful position, but where I left off, I was talking about smoking tobacco being against God's rules. About how a person can't consume drugs of some forms for comfort or pleasure without doing it in a way which 'replaces God.' I was waiting for an argument backing up that one.
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MellowFish



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 755
Location: The Train to Gloryland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: with much aplomb Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
MellowFish wrote:
Secondly, I never said tobbacco was bad for you, and it's not: in the same way alcohol isn't bad for you unless you use it too much. Smoking is bad for you, even in moderation.


That's a wonderful position, but where I left off, I was talking about smoking tobacco being against God's rules. About how a person can't consume drugs of some forms for comfort or pleasure without doing it in a way which 'replaces God.' I was waiting for an argument backing up that one.


Drugs are a mere facet of this problem, which is getting strength, comfort or joy from anywhere but god. People are god's instruments for showing his comfort to other people, nature is his way of showing strength (including miracles which are just a part of nature we dont understand), and life in general is his way of giving joy. So it is wrong to take joy in battle, but right to take joy seeing a birth. Wrong to destroy nature for selfish ends, right to use it for our benefit as people. Wrong to indulge in the sins I listed in my other post: gluttony, drunkeness, etc. for comfort, right to find it in the love and caring of the people god has put in your life.

Long answer to a short question, but it had to be said to ward of further misinterpretations of a too narrow subject.
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Michael



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10737

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hahaha we're not allowed like anything or anyone who isn't god Smile

Feel the LOVE!
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Feiticeira



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 1776

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MellowFish wrote:
For all the druggies out there who missed it, my second point is still valid: replacing god's comfort for those the world can offer is in direct violation of the first commandment. Doing drugs, have extra-marital sex, drinking heavily, eating gluttunously are all examples of this. Social drinking is a way to enjoy another of god's creations in a moderate manner, as is having sex with the woman you are married to or enjoying a fine meal. Doing any good thing in excess is wrong.


Holy christ, YOU are the most tolerant christian your friends have met? What kind of Pat Robertson batshit crazy fundamentalist nutball christians do your friends know?
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Zonedout



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 236
Location: Los Angeles CA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: with much aplomb Reply with quote

MellowFish wrote:
Sam wrote:
MellowFish wrote:
Secondly, I never said tobbacco was bad for you, and it's not: in the same way alcohol isn't bad for you unless you use it too much. Smoking is bad for you, even in moderation.


That's a wonderful position, but where I left off, I was talking about smoking tobacco being against God's rules. About how a person can't consume drugs of some forms for comfort or pleasure without doing it in a way which 'replaces God.' I was waiting for an argument backing up that one.


Drugs are a mere facet of this problem, which is getting strength, comfort or joy from anywhere but god. People are god's instruments for showing his comfort to other people, nature is his way of showing strength (including miracles which are just a part of nature we dont understand), and life in general is his way of giving joy. So it is wrong to take joy in battle, but right to take joy seeing a birth. Wrong to destroy nature for selfish ends, right to use it for our benefit as people. Wrong to indulge in the sins I listed in my other post: gluttony, drunkeness, etc. for comfort, right to find it in the love and caring of the people god has put in your life.

Long answer to a short question, but it had to be said to ward of further misinterpretations of a too narrow subject.


Funny thing about drugs and sodomy, since god is allseeing and allknowing his presence is always there, so it limits our private life and what we do in our own home subject to god's judgement. On this notion our government finds our private hobbies to be testifyable and possible controversial. So God's existence limits our private life in church and state. Fun stuff..BUT Why did god create such a wonderful natural plant such as cannibus sativa? was that a mircle that we are yet to understand in the context of Xity?
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