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August 12, 2017: Party Planning 26
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Bogy



Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 183
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GreekPlayer64 wrote:
eh Im used to being ignored anyways.

I hope it goes splendidly bogy Very Happy

Thanks!
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 20925
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taemon wrote:
Bogy wrote:
Taemon wrote:
Wait, surely the clergy doesn't have an official role in a wedding in the USA?

Yes, at least they can. Requirements vary by state as to who can officiate a marriage, and sign the document. It can be a judge, other stated official, or clergy person.

That's... stupid. No offence. But that's really stupid. Only Christian clergy, I take it? (I think "clergy" is Christian by definition? Not exactly my home turf.)


it is kinda nuts, especially since about anyone can declare themselves clergy. my brother's wedding was performed by a friend of his who had gotten a clergy certification from i think the Universal Life Church - you could just mail off for them (now you can probably get them over the internet), didn't have to demonstrate any knowledge or anything. now, i like the idea of a friend helping a couple join in marriage (and he did a nice job), but it's kind of silly that he couldn't just do it, he had to have a piece of paper.

clergy can be an important thing in people getting married, for religious people. bogy will correct me, but i believe a lot of churches want the couples to do some counseling before they marry (usually with clergy); that can be a really good thing to help people understand the obligations and potential stresses in a marriage, before they get committed. and of course, for people who have grown up as a church member or spent years with a congregation; the church leaders are often respected and even loved by the members, and the congregation are important members of your social group, so all people you would probably want involved in your wedding anyway. but the same is true of other important church functions; as i said, bar/bat mitzvahs, christenings, funerals - but none of those has force of law. marriage is a significant legal contract; to me, it makes sense to make that contract through the state, and then celebrate with appropriate ceremony with whatever group makes sense to you.
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Bogy



Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 183
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse, you are right on target. I, and most clergy, require the couple to meet with me for counseling. I'm a lot more flexible than many, but I have had a few non-member couples looking for a "Marryin' Sam" who have looked elsewhere when I told them of my requirement, which I'm OK with. (Giving away my age on the reference to Marryin' Sam. You young'uns might not get that one.)

And yes, I am beloved by my congregation, and most of this community. Why, is a long story, but I was a big part of keeping the towns largest employer from leaving town.
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Ookamo



Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 367
Location: Interstitial Void

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bogy wrote:
mouse, you are right on target. I, and most clergy, require the couple to meet with me for counseling. I'm a lot more flexible than many, but I have had a few non-member couples looking for a "Marryin' Sam" who have looked elsewhere when I told them of my requirement, which I'm OK with. (Giving away my age on the reference to Marryin' Sam. You young'uns might not get that one.)

And yes, I am beloved by my congregation, and most of this community. Why, is a long story, but I was a big part of keeping the towns largest employer from leaving town.


Do you, and/or most clergy, draw a line at marrying a couple where one is religious, and the other is agnostic, or even atheist? (I don't mean the militant variety).

As for me, it's more than likely that I will marry a catholic or protestant woman (Irish redheads come in few flavors), and since I draw the line, politely, at swearing on a bible when testifying (simply hate to lie when making a vow), I wonder if there's any precedent for wedding with an honest participant who isn't of the faith.

Hmm...can a civil ceremony be officiated by clergy? (Or is that not possible either)

Simple question, I know. Wink
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Bogy



Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 183
Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ookamo wrote:
Do you, and/or most clergy, draw a line at marrying a couple where one is religious, and the other is agnostic, or even atheist? (I don't mean the militant variety).

As for me, it's more than likely that I will marry a catholic or protestant woman (Irish redheads come in few flavors), and since I draw the line, politely, at swearing on a bible when testifying (simply hate to lie when making a vow), I wonder if there's any precedent for wedding with an honest participant who isn't of the faith.

Hmm...can a civil ceremony be officiated by clergy? (Or is that not possible either)

Simple question, I know. Wink

It's up to the individual clergy person who they will marry. As for me, I have married many "mixed couples". One of the things we talk about in counseling is how the couple is going to deal with religious issues. Even if they are both members of my congregation. But if, and actually it is more likely, they are of different denominations (Presbyterian/Lutheran), or faiths (Christian/Jewish), or Christian/Atheist, we will discuss that. If you are going to attend religious services, which services. How are any children going to be raised? What holidays will be celebrated in the home? And yeah, sometimes we have to talk about how someone has really been hurt by a church or pastor in the past. I've had atheists who are willing to attend church events with their spouse and children, who figure that they can find something of benefit/inspirational in the activities. If you are unable to do that, you and your future spouse should have that understanding from the beginning.

I don't necessarily fit the stereotype a lot of people have of Christian pastors. I have atheist friends (cliche much) who I feel are better "Christians" than some people who come to church and sit in a pew every Sunday. (Can I get an Amen!) That's because I believe God is more concerned with how we live our lives, demonstrating love, than with our allegiance to creeds and/or how often we "like" Christian Facebook memes. I also believe that God loves all her children, even the ones who don't phone home once in a while.

Oh yeah, a clergy person CAN do a "civil" ceremony. You just leave out all mention of God. Some will, some won't.

Long enough answer to your simple question? Very Happy
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Ookamo



Joined: 16 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It covered a lot! I really appreciate it.

I do feel a little guilty attending religious ceremonies when I'm not of the faith of those I'm accompanying,though.

Now, to marry someone who has such faith, I foresee hurdles that I'm not sure how to surmount. With people like you, I guess I have faith I'll cross that bridge when it comes. Wink
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Bogy



Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 183
Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ookamo wrote:
It covered a lot! I really appreciate it.

I do feel a little guilty attending religious ceremonies when I'm not of the faith of those I'm accompanying,though.

Now, to marry someone who has such faith, I foresee hurdles that I'm not sure how to surmount. With people like you, I guess I have faith I'll cross that bridge when it comes. Wink

Hey, I don't believe in luck, so with no disrespect, God bless as you figure things out. Wink
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