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December 5, 2017: MMXVII 28
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Chronometry



Joined: 02 Mar 2016
Posts: 580
Location: Middle of Nowhere, England

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taemon wrote:
No one is telling anyone to go into surgery or take hormones, you fucking Republican.


Taemon wrote:
you fucking Republican


holy crap that is an insult. that's practically shakespearean.
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KALXAK



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 56
Location: Rogue

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chronometry wrote:


Taemon wrote:
you fucking Republican


holy crap that is an insult.


It is! But Liberal/Democrat wouldn't be that much better either, both are the Right.


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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boy are you confused about american politics.
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OlympianSoul



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
boy are you confused about american politics.


Dude, America's confused about American politics.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

america is currently in denial of what politics even is. but whatever it is, it's definitely not the same across the board.
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KALXAK



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
boy are you confused about american politics.


Pretty sure you're mistaking me with someone else. Because both of these parties are right - Democrats are center right, Republicans far right.
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Zhuinden



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 306

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
consider the following, though:

1) defining a person by their reproductive organs is a shitty thing to do, regardless of whether or not theyre cis or trans, and its bizarre



They're not "defined", they're categorized. You know how your driver's license or ID or whatever says "name, date of birth, sex"? It literally defines that you are this person who has this name, was born at this date, and is of sex ___.

And if you have a peepee that can go into a hooha then you're defined as male, if you have a hooha then you're defined as female. Anyone who knows a slight bit about human reproduction can generally accept this terminology, considering this is sexual dimorphism or so.

If you ever plan on reproduction, you can't just say "oh they feel like a woman so they are female" because it does not work like that.

Miss Magenta wrote:
gender is a social construct and sexual dimorphism isnt as clear cut as its commonly thought to be. lifes too damn short to define people by their reproductive organs and forcing them to adhere by rigid gender binaries and western social constructs.


Disagree with the italic. You either function as male, as female, or you're dysfunctional (intersex who have some really messed up chromosomes unfortunately).

People generally have 1 head, but there are siamese twins with 2 heads, right? But you don't end up saying "it's incorrect to generally claim people have 1 head, because some people have two heads". I feel like "but what about the intersex people who can't reproduce at all" is a similar question, it's irrelevant for the big picture.

-----

I agree with the bold text, though. Gender is a social construct, and it's honestly quite stupid. The primary thing that matters from physical sex is the ability to reproduce, but that shouldn't affect your everyday day-to-day life when you're not busy boning someone.

The linked comic is about gender roles, and not gender. The roles that say if you're female then you should be submissive and your only goal in life is to support and satisfy your husband, and otherwise hold no value. That sort of garbage. And yes, that is horrible.

Which is exactly why we should just ditch gender entirely, ignore it, and consider only the sex of people Very Happy Once you do that, trans people will seem weird to you too, though.

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Absynthe



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zhuinden wrote:
Miss Magenta wrote:
consider the following, though:

1) defining a person by their reproductive organs is a shitty thing to do, regardless of whether or not theyre cis or trans, and its bizarre



They're not "defined", they're categorized. You know how your driver's license or ID or whatever says "name, date of birth, sex"? It literally defines that you are this person who has this name, was born at this date, and is of sex ___.



Your shit literally falls apart in your first sentence.

Is it hateful fucknugget season already? I thought we just had the exterminators through here like, two months ago...

Y'all really need to offer something besides a weak-ass tautology and a bunch of fundie-level handwaving about sexual dimorphism, which you've spent like ten seconds googling.

Literally just booted a fucking MRA pissant out not even a month ago, and now we've got transphobes all up in the cupboards.

Who left the goddamn door open?
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Pedro_Martini



Joined: 24 Sep 2016
Posts: 337

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absynthe wrote:
Your shit literally falls apart in your first sentence.

Is it hateful fucknugget season already? I thought we just had the exterminators through here like, two months ago...

Y'all really need to offer something besides a weak-ass tautology and a bunch of fundie-level handwaving about sexual dimorphism, which you've spent like ten seconds googling.

Literally just booted a fucking MRA pissant out not even a month ago, and now we've got transphobes all up in the cupboards.

Who left the goddamn door open?


Well thought out counter-argument.
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KALXAK



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 56
Location: Rogue

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absynthe wrote:
Who left the goddamn door open?



So, you do understand that categorize and hierarquize are different things, right? Because you sound way too offended by something harmless like a category. I *do* hate the facts humans were hierarquized by sex, hence patriarchy, tho.
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Taemon



Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 1904
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Categorizing people by their sex is rather transphobic and has rarely led to something good.
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KALXAK



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taemon wrote:
Categorizing people by their sex is rather transphobic and has rarely led to something good.


LOL sure! I bet most medical doctors and non-misogynist scientists disagree with you - just think gynecology, obstetrics, urology, proctology and some other sex specific issues, for starters. But as long as you have none to zero influence in medicine or science, I guess I'll dismiss opinions like yours, the same way we should dismiss earthplanists and creationists. Categories are not only helpful, they are harmless. Hierarquies, stereotypes and roles aren't.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are a lot of different reasons people are categorized; just because a particular categorization is useful in some situations does not mean that it is useful in all situations. doctors categorize people in lots of ways that have relevance to their medical condition: sex, age, weight, blood pressure, genetics, familial history of cancer and so on. but we don't insist on characterizing everyone by their medical history for all purposes.

there are lots of situations where it is not appropriate to characterize people by sex or gender - like how much money you pay them for a particular job, whether you even consider hiring them for that job, whether you rent them an apartment, and so on. unless the activity i am doing specifically involves using my sexual organs, what sexual organs i have should be irrelevant.
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KALXAK



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
there are a lot of different reasons people are categorized; just because a particular categorization is useful in some situations does not mean that it is useful in all situations. doctors categorize people in lots of ways that have relevance to their medical condition: sex, age, weight, blood pressure, genetics, familial history of cancer and so on. but we don't insist on characterizing everyone by their medical history for all purposes.

there are lots of situations where it is not appropriate to characterize people by sex or gender - like how much money you pay them for a particular job, whether you even consider hiring them for that job, whether you rent them an apartment, and so on. unless the activity i am doing specifically involves using my sexual organs, what sexual organs i have should be irrelevant.


I totally agree with you! Especially this part:

mouse wrote:
unless the activity i am doing specifically involves using [or dealing in any way I, Kalxak, would add] my sexual organs, what sexual organs i have should be irrelevant.


That's what all radfems agree with.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

o....kay, so where are do all the issues with trans people come in? do you think they spend all their time having sex and/or in a doctor's office?
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