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December 5, 2017: MMXVII 28
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 11184

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuck terfs and throw them into the sun thanks
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cathy Brennan is a fake goth
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Draculaura



Joined: 19 Sep 2015
Posts: 1794
Location: THERE IS SNOW OUTSIIIIDE

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Tengo que ir a la tienda a comprar mantequilla y queso.
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Draculaura



Joined: 19 Sep 2015
Posts: 1794
Location: THERE IS SNOW OUTSIIIIDE

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn so the stank-ass wave 2 shit Tat spat finally attracted the trans ex rad flies? Wrow.

Sis, ain't you got like... moon-blood paintings to go make in the woods or some shit? Honestly
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh boy* was there something in the comic which gave us more information on where the stance was on transgender identity?

*oh no
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 7490

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nah, not really. still nebulous as ever.

this spawned from kalxak generalizing that men are jealous of women because they can bear children, or something? then miss m was like 'cis men' and then kalxak spewed some transphobic bile and i was like 'ugh a terf'.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 11184

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's boilerplate it. Uhh, trans women are women. Trans women are women. Trans women are women. Trans exclusion is dipshit reactionary garbage. If your "feminism" is not trans inclusionary, you're shit and you should feel bad. Did that cover all the core points or do we have to add more?

Fuck terfs and fuck swerfs. Garbage. Fuck you. Literal vomit. No dialogue. Etc.
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Leohan



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1723

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
oh boy* was there something in the comic which gave us more information on where the stance was on transgender identity?

*oh no

I'd say our closest clue would be Slick's reaction of terror after getting to the Trans Zone. Although that might be a perfectly normal reaction for any cis man, with Slick being at that moment a strawman for patriarchal beliefs it comes to reason that transphobia is, in Ishida's view, laughable.

I might be grasping at straws, though. We really do not have that much evidence
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 1220
Location: Behind my Cintiq

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, thanks for the read guys! I know I'm not exactly a big forums participant anymore, but I saw this long thread and decided to read through.

I think one of those last ones pretty much summed up where Kalxak is coming from for me...
KALXAK wrote:

because it's supporting delusions, throwing women's rights and feminism under the bus and promoting homophobic ideas, like that "if you don't date trans women you can't call yourself a lesbian" spiel I've heard too many times on the internet.

...unfortunately, it's not coming from a place of moral decency. It's from the same sense of "us vs them" that always pollutes everything. You're making people trying to defend basic trans rights into a giant strawman monster. How many people say the "you can't call yourself a lesbian" line in particular? I'm sure their are people who have thought that. The internet is nothing if not extreme with misguided opinions. (And that would be one as dictating whom an individual should HAVE to be romantic/sexual with is a complete destruction of basic human rights)

But even if it was the case, you're still just throwing a fit and picking a side because you feel the other person was mean to you. And meanwhile it's obvious that at the end of it is a distaste for people you find weird/wrong. That the group as a whole will hurt your own group, because pushing for their rights means you have to give up some. It sounds exactly like someone fighting feminism with strawman arguments. Just because their is a radical feminist somewhere saying to kill men doesn't make it feminism as a whole. The same goes for trans rights groups. Just because someone has an extreme view, doesn't mean that the whole thing is toxic. (Assuming any of these aren't just strawmen arguments entirely)


Also...You've talked about doctor opinions. My wife is a doctor. She understands genetics. Yes. She does classify by male or female on charts. She also makes notes for people about specifics, like that they transitioned, so that she has a better understanding of what their body is doing/needs. She also makes notes for if someone had a steel rod in their back. Or if they have cancer. Yes, doctors will use labels. But there's a further understanding there too. That the way genetics and brain chemistry works, a trans person is most of the time going to stay a trans person. The only time things like that change and are volatile is during puberty. For that reason, she and many doctors would not recommend allowing a kid to change their hormones artificially before they mature and stabilize, but that's completely different than thinking in terms of binary of one label fits all. Just because a little check-mark box is convenient for 90% of people doesn't mean its the end for how the doctor will approach the patient. I can guarantee you a doctor (well any good one) will not approach a trans-woman for care like they would a cis-male person. Behaviors/genetics change how our brain chemistry reacts to our environment. Our bodies react and change to compensate for what we need/understand.



TLDR; People are who they are. You can't force them to be someone else and no amount of trying to label it with negative labels like "delusional" or otherwise will change them. Maybe they were born that way. Maybe their brain chemistry was slowly shaped by their environment as they grew. Either way, after its developed, most people are going to be the way they are. Dehumanizing or trivializing them or making them look to be out to get you just kinda makes you look like an ass.
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Pedro_Martini



Joined: 24 Sep 2016
Posts: 337

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
I'd say our closest clue would be Slick's reaction of terror after getting to the Trans Zone. Although that might be a perfectly normal reaction for any cis man, with Slick being at that moment a strawman for patriarchal beliefs it comes to reason that transphobia is, in Ishida's view, laughable.


I think anyone; cis, trans, whatever, would freak if that happened out of nowhere.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 7490

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what gets me the most is the 'supporting delusions' part. as if kalxak knows best and has the authority to tell people who they are.

its such a familiar argument from the gross dudebros that used to roll in all the time, its jarring to see it come out of a self proclaimed feminist.
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Taemon



Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 1907
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pedro_Martini wrote:
Leohan wrote:
I'd say our closest clue would be Slick's reaction of terror after getting to the Trans Zone. Although that might be a perfectly normal reaction for any cis man, with Slick being at that moment a strawman for patriarchal beliefs it comes to reason that transphobia is, in Ishida's view, laughable.


I think anyone; cis, trans, whatever, would freak if that happened out of nowhere.

I would absolutely love it! But yeah, I'd wonder what the fuck just happened.

Samsally wrote:
what gets me the most is the 'supporting delusions' part. as if kalxak knows best and has the authority to tell people who they are.

Right? "This doesn't fit in my political stance, hence I'm declaring that these people don't know their own mind."

The stupid thing is, I actually agree with a lot of what Kalxak says, sans the delusional part of course. I never considered myself man or woman. Nowadays that's called "nonbinary", which is fine with me. I considered transition, but, stuff and things.

Yet I am also convinced that genders aren't really born but rather made, and most if not all sex differences are a result of society. Sometimes people point out to me that those two don't really go together. Then I say "I know that, and I don't understand it myself but this is how I feel."

Apparently I'm delusional. But I have no problem admitting that my theories and thoughts and principles don't all align perfectly.
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Zhuinden



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 306

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taemon wrote:

most if not all sex differences are a result of society.


Okay so like animals that also reproduce with male and female interaction generally don't need a society to tell them how to have different genitalia for taking part in reproduction in a particular way, so that's a bit extreme.
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