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December 14: MMXVII 37
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OlympianSoul



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, sense it seems like we're on the topic (and if we're not I'm sorry for not staying on topic), some of Mr. Ishidas feminist characters, remind me of those stereotypical feminist you find on TV shows and cartoons, who go around protesting everything and while they make good points, they are so obnoxious about it that it's hard for the viewers to area with them. Oh, and they are never aloud to be wrong.
I'm not saying that because I dislike the comic, far from it in fact, it's just something I've noticed, and I'm kinda hoping I'm wrong.
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Caimsen



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OlympianSoul wrote:
So why isn't there a male equivalent version of the fembots targeted towards women? They would sell, so why not make them? What about homosexual men and women, wouldn't they buy a bot just like a heterosexual man or woman? Why isn't the devil targeting these demographics; does he have bad business sense or something?

I'm sorry, but these are questions that are driving me crazy, and ones that I would really like some answers to.

Also, did Sleaze get the high score or something, because those guys are serounding him like kids in an arcade?


Cause it would just make things much more complicated in this Comic, then they allready are. The Comic turned from Highschoolhumor to an still humorfull but feministic Comic. It Centers around the Problems what Woman have or as what they are from some People seen.
And we all know very well (at least i hope it) that this is not a one Way Street and Man too are on the short End too. But thats not the Topic of this Site.

I still think its rather irretating that we have at one Side the Fembots, who should probably be a Metapher for surpresed Woman and then we have since a few Months real Womans in the redlight District.
I mean, this makes this rather paradox.

Miss Magenta wrote:
Taemon wrote:
Yeah.


tat probably needs this hanging above his work station or something



Well, you could add " for me, for them for anybody?" at every Point. Just for an Example, if somebody would help Sleaze, it totaly wouldnt help the Fembot.


Why do i get the fealing that Sleaze will cause a lot of Trouble and Slick will have to clean up for it?
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mouse



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OlympianSoul wrote:
So why isn't there a male equivalent version of the fembots targeted towards women? They would sell, so why not make them? What about homosexual men and women, wouldn't they buy a bot just like a heterosexual man or woman? Why isn't the devil targeting these demographics; does he have bad business sense or something?


well, we don't know what the devil is targeting until we are shown, but what we are shown is dependent on the issues tat wants to explore. i wonder if some of it doesn't have to do with the essential power dynamics between men and women: men are generally physically larger and stronger than women, so women often have a very real fear that the man they are with will physically harm them. i don't know that men have that same fear, or to what extent it's general among gays and lesbians.

now, it is true that women have physically attacked and injured their male partner, and fembots, presumably, can be built to physically dominate their owners. but in a situation like today's, sleaze (and the other men) are reveling in his physical dominance of the fembot, in his ability to force her to do what he wants (even if it is via a controller and not a physical threat).

that physical dominance thing is something that comes up a lot in male sexual harassment of women; the ability to dominate a woman physically is part of what turns on at least some harassers, and enables others to do the things they want. and that's a problem. and i think that is the problem tat wants to address, not the idea of the devil's ability to provide a robotic sex-toy tailored to each individual's needs, and whatever moral conundrums might come from that.

and that may be why he draws images that make some people queasy. it's a queasy subject, and the image reminds us all of that.
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Nobody Important



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
tat probably needs this hanging above his work station or something



Never seen that picture before but I love it and am going to apply it to myself now.
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Chronometry



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caimsen wrote:
Why do i get the fealing that Sleaze will cause a lot of Trouble and Slick will have to clean up for it?


Because it's happened before, multiple times, with no sign of it stopping anytime soon?
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HKVeteran



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am seriously bored by the fembot characters!
Ironic that characters meant to call out the awful ways women are handled in storytelling are falling into the same pitfalls.
The fembots are weak characters.

Not to mention the SWERFiness is just a little patronizing.
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Onimaru



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just praying this doesn't become the THIRD Toaster Thread....

Other than that, I kinda agree with above, mentioning how Tat seems to have some odd 'absolutes' that he seems to push, but then doesn't see the hypocrisy in a lot of the art he chooses...
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OlympianSoul



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Onimaru wrote:
I'm just praying this doesn't become the THIRD Toaster Thread....

Other than that, I kinda agree with above, mentioning how Tat seems to have some odd 'absolutes' that he seems to push, but then doesn't see the hypocrisy in a lot of the art he chooses...


what's a toaster thread?
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Leohan



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OlympianSoul wrote:
Onimaru wrote:
I'm just praying this doesn't become the THIRD Toaster Thread....

Other than that, I kinda agree with above, mentioning how Tat seems to have some odd 'absolutes' that he seems to push, but then doesn't see the hypocrisy in a lot of the art he chooses...


what's a toaster thread?

Check out my signature. They are a long read, though...
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OlympianSoul



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
OlympianSoul wrote:
Onimaru wrote:
I'm just praying this doesn't become the THIRD Toaster Thread....

Other than that, I kinda agree with above, mentioning how Tat seems to have some odd 'absolutes' that he seems to push, but then doesn't see the hypocrisy in a lot of the art he chooses...


what's a toaster thread?

Check out my signature. They are a long read, though...


You know, after looking through that I only have more questions, but the one I really want to ask is, why isn't Slick aloud to be in a happy relationship?
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Pedro_Martini



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OlympianSoul wrote:
You know, after looking through that I only have more questions, but the one I really want to ask is, why isn't Slick aloud to be in a happy relationship?

For most of the comic it was pretty funny, and created an interesting dynamic between him and Monique, but whereas he was basically desperate for any kind of attention, Monique was holding off for a guy she deemed 100% perfect. They had the same goal which created reason for them interacting (because why would they hang out if they had nothing in common) but they were still sort of opposites of each other, which I thought was really cool.

Now, metaphors and shit. I guess Tat is saying people like Slick don't deserve relationships, because every man in one at the moment seems to be fucking it up (except Criminy, but I figured he's either a separate metaphor on his own, or just kept around to keep the pre-sisterhood fans happy).

If Tat really wanted to drag Slick to a new low, he could have him be in a relationship, only to have Sleaze turn it into an abusive relationship. Slick hasn't really done much in the past couple of years, he just sort of mopes around at what he has done. Making him the bad guy in yet another girls life would refresh the audience on why he's a dickhead and why straight white men don't deserve anything. Actually, Slick/Sleaze would be a really good metaphor for an abusive relationship because it would model the randomness of reward/punishments that abusers uses to create uncertainty and dependence in their partners.

Not good for Slick, but he stopped being the hero years ago.

Also just noticed your signature. +1
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OlympianSoul



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pedro_Martini wrote:
OlympianSoul wrote:
You know, after looking through that I only have more questions, but the one I really want to ask is, why isn't Slick aloud to be in a happy relationship?

For most of the comic it was pretty funny, and created an interesting dynamic between him and Monique, but whereas he was basically desperate for any kind of attention, Monique was holding off for a guy she deemed 100% perfect. They had the same goal which created reason for them interacting (because why would they hang out if they had nothing in common) but they were still sort of opposites of each other, which I thought was really cool.

Now, metaphors and shit. I guess Tat is saying people like Slick don't deserve relationships, because every man in one at the moment seems to be fucking it up (except Criminy, but I figured he's either a separate metaphor on his own, or just kept around to keep the pre-sisterhood fans happy).

If Tat really wanted to drag Slick to a new low, he could have him be in a relationship, only to have Sleaze turn it into an abusive relationship. Slick hasn't really done much in the past couple of years, he just sort of mopes around at what he has done. Making him the bad guy in yet another girls life would refresh the audience on why he's a dickhead and why straight white men don't deserve anything. Actually, Slick/Sleaze would be a really good metaphor for an abusive relationship because it would model the randomness of reward/punishments that abusers uses to create uncertainty and dependence in their partners.

Not good for Slick, but he stopped being the hero years ago.

Also just noticed your signature. +1


Yeah but is that really okay? I mean, for the most part, Slick was never a bad guy, just full of himself with hints of inferiority complex (Monique was, possibly still is, the same way).

Also, thank you for the +1 Very Happy
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Pedro_Martini



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OlympianSoul wrote:
Yeah but is that really okay? I mean, for the most part, Slick was never a bad guy, just full of himself with hints of inferiority complex (Monique was, possibly still is, the same way).

My thoughts exactly. He had some screwed up ideas about himself and the people around him, but he never hurt anyone, caused serious damage or intended to make the world a worse place (most of what he did; he did because he mistakenly thought it would make the world a better place. The worst you could accuse him of there is ignorance). But after a year of waiting for something positive about Slick to be acknowledged, or for him and Monique to be shown to have something still in common, I've gotten pretty cynical. Still holding out for their reunion though, romantic or not.

Someone a while back (sorry, don't remember who) suggested Slick's arc should be to be happy being single; to realise he doesn't need anyone. If anything is ever to happen positively for Slick again, I think that's what it will probably be. That would be an ok, if slightly anti-climatic (in my opinion) ending, but I'm doubtful that things are going to go anywhere but down for Slick for a long time.
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Caimsen



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OlympianSoul wrote:
Leohan wrote:
OlympianSoul wrote:
Onimaru wrote:
I'm just praying this doesn't become the THIRD Toaster Thread....

Other than that, I kinda agree with above, mentioning how Tat seems to have some odd 'absolutes' that he seems to push, but then doesn't see the hypocrisy in a lot of the art he chooses...


what's a toaster thread?

Check out my signature. They are a long read, though...


You know, after looking through that I only have more questions, but the one I really want to ask is, why isn't Slick aloud to be in a happy relationship?


Pedro_Martini said most of the important Part. An other Part would be that the Comic couldnt have worked like it used to be. Many Jokes where on Slick where he tried to impres Monique and win her Heart. But somehow he allways screwed up. Or nearly allways. At least when it counted. Tat even made an own Sunday strip about that.
One Main Problem was, what Slick was at the Start of the Comic, a wannabe. Worked exelent with the Jokes, but Tat couldnt bring the him and the Storys in that Directions that he would have a happy Relationship. Well, we got Crim and Fuchsia, but that is a different Topic.
I think another big Problem is, that we have too many different Storys, who are just lose conected with each other. Tat even made a Comic where he asked "what should i do with this now".
I think it will take Years until most of the current Storys are ended (if not new Storylines will show up) and maybe then, but just maybe, we will have a Slick in a happy Relationship.


Pedro_Martini wrote:
OlympianSoul wrote:
Yeah but is that really okay? I mean, for the most part, Slick was never a bad guy, just full of himself with hints of inferiority complex (Monique was, possibly still is, the same way).

My thoughts exactly. He had some screwed up ideas about himself and the people around him, but he never hurt anyone, caused serious damage or intended to make the world a worse place (most of what he did; he did because he mistakenly thought it would make the world a better place. The worst you could accuse him of there is ignorance). But after a year of waiting for something positive about Slick to be acknowledged, or for him and Monique to be shown to have something still in common, I've gotten pretty cynical. Still holding out for their reunion though, romantic or not.

Someone a while back (sorry, don't remember who) suggested Slick's arc should be to be happy being single; to realise he doesn't need anyone. If anything is ever to happen positively for Slick again, I think that's what it will probably be. That would be an ok, if slightly anti-climatic (in my opinion) ending, but I'm doubtful that things are going to go anywhere but down for Slick for a long time.


As far as i remember, most of the things what connected Slick with Monique where the same Humor and some simular Hobbys, like the Songwriting and Prosamaking. Slick tuned it a bit down, but Monique has changed rather drasticly. I mean, she wasnt a real Maneater, but she screwed around for good.(Did we ever got shown her Ex, of how she was affraid to meet on the Street, cause she wasnt full styled?) Then it was nearly from one Day to the next a 180° turn, where all of her Focus was on Womanright and the fight against the Patriachat. And of course there was the "fight" too, where they both talked past each other.

To me, it looks like Slick is walking in a Circel or a Spiral and doesnt reach the Mainproblem. On the other Hand, he never had a real Goal exept to get Moniques Heart, Fame and Money. I mean, what do we expect from him? To be mystical enlighted, simular like Monique with the Pill, where she could see the Patriachatmatrix after it? (Ok, she was allready on that Way and just needed a last little Push, but same goes for Crim, just that nobody cares about him at this Point and he has no Influence)
No. People want to see the "Hero" struggle, fall down and get up on his Feet again. And not just that he has to smile and everybody is happy. People want Drama, even when most dont admit it. Otherwise the Story would be lame or stale.
Slick was never the strong Character, who could overcome his Problems with a Fingersnip. He is a little Dork, with a too big Ego, but still in a Way that you can like him, since he has a good Core.
I dont think that Tat allready has figured out what to do with him in the End, but i hope that the Story will be good and that Slick will be happy.

But you are right Pedro. First of all you need to be happy with yourself, otherwise you cant have a good Relationship, cause something would allways nag on you inside and have a bad Influence on your Partner too.
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Pedro_Martini



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Caimsen


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