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December 19, 2017: MMXVII 42
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Chronometry



Joined: 02 Mar 2016
Posts: 753
Location: Middle of Nowhere, England

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:42 am    Post subject: December 19, 2017: MMXVII 42 Reply with quote



ugh

why has the word "daddy" become so sexualised?
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Sam the Eagle



Joined: 01 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ever since Nabokov?
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Chronometry



Joined: 02 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam the Eagle wrote:
ever since Nabokov?


Damn it, Vladimir, Lolita was not worth this!
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this comic is creepy. like that it's creepy that someone ever made it and ascribed a lack of agency onto sex workers and voiced them in such a way as part of an ideological point against sex work
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Vixine



Joined: 12 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on, Tat, why not throw in a little bit of transphobia, give us the full SWERF and TERF combo platter.
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Leohan



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really, at this point, why bother complaining? SWERF is clearly a part of the comic's identity, like it or not (Personally, I don't like it). To dwell upon it is almost equal to the people that didn't like the "new" feminist direction of the strip, I'd say.
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sharkjack



Joined: 20 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
Really, at this point, why bother complaining? SWERF is clearly a part of the comic's identity, like it or not (Personally, I don't like it). To dwell upon it is almost equal to the people that didn't like the "new" feminist direction of the strip, I'd say.


That is a poor comparison. The reason they didn't like feminism in their comic was because they disliked the message Tat intended to imbue into the comic. Sinfest can be pretty blunt, but even blunt objects can be used to deliver precision strikes.

Now, it could be that Tat hates sex workers and wishes for their suffering, but I doubt it. He spends too much time humanizing them for that. So instead we most likely have an intended message about freeing the most oppressed from a powerful oppressor, that also stomps on those it depicts as most oppressed by uncritically reproducing stigma and SWERF rhetoric.

Tat has also already re-examined his beliefs and course corrected Sinfest in the past, so a second one is always possible. Until then there is always the possibility of lurkers on the forum who won't know about previous times this has occurred, or about what SWERF even means.
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Pedro_Martini



Joined: 24 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sharkjack wrote:
Tat has also already re-examined his beliefs and course corrected Sinfest in the past, so a second one is always possible.

Man that'd be interesting. Especially if it happened at the pace the last one did.
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OlympianSoul



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pedro_Martini wrote:
sharkjack wrote:
Tat has also already re-examined his beliefs and course corrected Sinfest in the past, so a second one is always possible.

Man that'd be interesting. Especially if it happened at the pace the last one did.


You mean instantly with no warning?

On that note, does anyone ellse think it would be interesting if Ishida introduced a female antagonist who used the societies views in order to get away with her crimes.
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CopperRose



Joined: 19 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: December 19, 2017: MMXVII 42 Reply with quote

Chronometry wrote:


ugh

why has the word "daddy" become so sexualised?


I also wonder that myself. But it's nothing new, it's always been a thing.

I had a few customers back in the day who wanted me to address them as "Daddy". I did it, I mean you know, for tips.

But, it was creepy even then. As if they were fantasizing about their daughter or maybe because they are giving us money, providing like a dad would? I don't know.
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Pedro_Martini



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OlympianSoul wrote:
You mean instantly with no warning?

Yeah. Slick was the one who dealt with the most shock of having his entire outlook turned around within a few days/weeks, I'd like to see how some characters would react if their life's focus was also rendered irrelevant (irrelevant being a relative term). Gender equality is an important issue, but certainly not the only one. If the focus switched to something like corporatism / totalitarianism / terrorism / even something ridiculous like an alien invasion, it would pull a lot of importance away from, say, the sisterhood and their fight. If Tat made someone else's problems bigger and more immediate, they'd have to accept the reality that something bigger than patriarchy needs to be solved sooner.

OlympianSoul wrote:
On that note, does anyone ellse think it would be interesting if Ishida introduced a female antagonist who used the societies views in order to get away with her crimes.

That, too, would be interesting.
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Leohan



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sharkjack wrote:
That is a poor comparison. The reason they didn't like feminism in their comic was because they disliked the message Tat intended to imbue into the comic. Sinfest can be pretty blunt, but even blunt objects can be used to deliver precision strikes.

Well, that's a generalized idea. I mean, I personally agree with Tat, politically, but I also think that he sucks at political humor. Barackstar and Trump-bot make poor characters, I think. In that same vein, people could agree with a feminist message but not want that in their Sinfest comics.

sharkjack wrote:
Tat has also already re-examined his beliefs and course corrected Sinfest in the past, so a second one is always possible.

I don't mean to deny this, but when do you mean?
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Tyger42



Joined: 16 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
Really, at this point, why bother complaining? SWERF is clearly a part of the comic's identity, like it or not (Personally, I don't like it). To dwell upon it is almost equal to the people that didn't like the "new" feminist direction of the strip, I'd say.


Feminism is fine. It's great. But, like any ideology, when it's taken to such extremes, it does more damage than good even to its own cause. Speak out about that which is offensive. You may as well be saying "racism is part of America's identity, why bother dwelling on it?" Challenging bad ideas is the only way to change them.

I absolutely admit there are women working in the sex industry that don't want to be there. Either they feel forced into it by financial burdens or they're literally forced into it by threat of physical violence. Sex slavery is a real thing. That being said, the majority of strippers and even some prostitutes LIKE the work they do. Pretending otherwise is no better than pretending sex slavery isn't a thing. And, frankly, it's insulting to women to think they can't make their own decisions.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sharkjack wrote:


Now, it could be that Tat hates sex workers and wishes for their suffering, but I doubt it.


SWERFiness is not about that. That's not swerfy. That's just whorephobia not attached to radical feminism.

SWERF is usually, almost entirely inescapably that if a woman is exercising her agency to participate in sex work for any reason she wants, she's exercising her agency wrong. Usually they're saying that sex workers don't really have any agency and that there is no ethical way to participate in sex work and that they are all or mostly traumatized and there will always be trauma.

It's full rull bad. This comic straight out has two of the three, and arguably the third. I have seen common references to depersonalization/derealization where the comic is hinting that sex work is inextricably damaging and so women must be protected from their own decisions to participate in sex work.
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Caimsen



Joined: 12 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chronometry wrote:


ugh

why has the word "daddy" become so sexualised?


Cause of the Internet. Things like "i call him Daddy", simular to the "chocke me harder". Weird stuff....


Pedro_Martini wrote:
OlympianSoul wrote:
You mean instantly with no warning?

Yeah. Slick was the one who dealt with the most shock of having his entire outlook turned around within a few days/weeks, I'd like to see how some characters would react if their life's focus was also rendered irrelevant (irrelevant being a relative term). Gender equality is an important issue, but certainly not the only one. If the focus switched to something like corporatism / totalitarianism / terrorism / even something ridiculous like an alien invasion, it would pull a lot of importance away from, say, the sisterhood and their fight. If Tat made someone else's problems bigger and more immediate, they'd have to accept the reality that something bigger than patriarchy needs to be solved sooner.


We indeed have much bigger Problems to deal with, then just Gender equality. But this Comis focuses now mainly around this and some simular Topics.
We had this Topic a few Times, but it allways stoped rather quick. Beside that, some of the real big Problems aren't even in our News here in Austria and we get normaly a good View what happens all around the World and not just Europe and north America. But the yearly hungercrisis in Africa doesnt sell so good in the News, so its just gets a few Articels here and there, if the Problems getrs really big.
And since we are at the Topic Gender equality. The Problems what we have here and what this would mean in some other Countrys. Sometimes it really lets the Problems here look rather laughable, compared too theirs. Of course we have some rather major Problems here too.



Get out of the Pimpbot and ask them Face to Face. Well, even then it wouldnt be easy for the Girls to say somethign different, since the Pimp didnt looked nice and friendly....



Edit: Just a Question, but what is SWERF and TERF?
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