Welcome to the Fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

May 6, 2018: Better Programming 6
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
cleocatra



Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 269
Location: Cave

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
cleocatra wrote:
If the average age of people entering the sex industry is 13 and 50% have been homeless that means for each 20 year old there's gotta be people below age 7 or so, and half of them or so would be homeless.


as a statistical person, i kinda gotta address this. for one thing, you are combining two things, age at entry and homelessness. there is no suggestion that they had to be homeless at the time they became prostitutes; that could have been any time in their life. (and sadly, a lot of children do experience homelessness - according to this report, 1/3 of the homeless are families with children.) so someone who entered the sex industry at 13 might not experience homelessness until her 20's, and the statistic would still be correct.

and equal numbers of people above and below the mean age is true only if the age distribution in normally distributed, which isn't possible here (it is far more possible for someone to become a sex worker at age 27 than at age -1). it's got to be something like a Poisson distribution. which means the median age (the age by which half of sex workers have started) is < 13. or to put it in numbers like yours, that would be 7 12-year-olds against 1 20 yr old. which again, depending on your definition of sex work, could (depressingly) be true. is a child whose image is used in child pornography considered to have entered the sex industry? and again, in these definitions, clearly tat is considering people who have entered the sex industry involuntarily....so yeah, children too.


I admit a bad usage of statistics, in the same way as the above image uses statistics badly.

But do you really think if all people in the sex industry are included, people age 13 would be the average, either median mode or mean? I mean there's granny porn. You'd need a lot of 12 year olds to balance that out.

Apparently the age 13 link is in a survey of only children, not adults, and no-one is arguing that children should be allowed to do sex work.

if I survey a bunch of kids forced to work in mines, then I'd get a survey result saying, "the average age of a worker in a coal mine initially is under 18"


Also to be honest putting homelessness in the stats to just say "sex work is bad" is saying one of these things:
"homeless women are having to sell sex in order to survive on the streets but we should cut off that income stream"
"selling sex makes you homeless"
"being homeless correlates with selling sex but we've no idea what that means so let's just put it here to make you feel bad"
_________________
- explanation of feminism -
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 21238
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don't really know the data well enough to have a feel for it; as i said, if you include pornography, i can see it having a surprisingly low mean.

homelessness is also a pretty solid indication that you are dealing with people living in poverty, so to me it's relating poverty to going into sex work. which could be because someone who grew up impoverished with incidents of homelessness may have fewer employable skills or just have a harder time in general getting a job, for a lot of reasons. or it could be that sex workers don't make enough to get them out of poverty. or both. again, don't know the data, just commenting on interpretation of stats.
_________________
aka: neverscared!
a flux of vibrant matter
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jack



Joined: 29 Mar 2014
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Politifact researched the statement "Studies show the average age of entry into prostitution is 12 to 14 years old." They found some "old and limited" research suggesting that this is true for juvenile prostitution only. So they called the statement "half true," but it sounds more like total bullshit to me.

http://www.politifact.com/oregon/statements/2013/mar/02/diane-mckeel/Is-average-age-entry-sex-trafficking-between-12-an/

EDIT: Ah shit, just realized that jordigh already said this, more or less. Sorry.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Caimsen



Joined: 12 Jun 2014
Posts: 751
Location: The good old World

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
Valerie wrote:
I'm stuck on "legalization increases trafficking." Isn't trafficking specifically when someone is made to go into the sex industry against their will? If prostitution is legalized, wouldn't that increase the number of willing participants, thereby decreasing the demand for forced participants? Does anyone have any sources about that?

Oh, God, I had missed that one!

...It is not the job of a comic strip writer to be factually accurate, I know. Their job is to be entertaining and, well, I'm still around so he must be doing something halfway right. However, when delivering these forms of political message I think there's a level of social responsibility to research these claims. Otherwise it becomes an awful form of propaganda.

Please, Tat. I know you can be better than this.


Well, if somebody makes a serious Comicstrip, he should at least search for real Statistics. Otherwise he should let them look so, that its rather clear that its a Joke. Beside that, never trust a Statistic that you didnt tampered by yourself.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 21238
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caimsen wrote:
Beside that, never trust a Statistic that you didnt tampered by yourself.


careful, there - you are going to sound like rudy “Those are the facts that we're still working on” guiliani.


(tamper:
1. to meddle, especially for the purpose of altering, damaging, or misusing usually followed by with):
Someone has been tampering with the lock.
2. to make changes in something, especially in order to falsify (usually followed by with):
to tamper with official records.
3. to engage secretly or improperly in something.
4. to engage in underhand or corrupt dealings, especially in order to influence improperly (usually followed by with):
Any lawyer who tries to tamper with a jury should be disbarred.

i suspect that's not exactly what you meant)

(although actually it would be pretty funny if you did. forgive me if i stepped on your punch line.)
_________________
aka: neverscared!
a flux of vibrant matter
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Caimsen



Joined: 12 Jun 2014
Posts: 751
Location: The good old World

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
Caimsen wrote:
Beside that, never trust a Statistic that you didnt tampered by yourself.


careful, there - you are going to sound like rudy “Those are the facts that we're still working on” guiliani.


(tamper:
1. to meddle, especially for the purpose of altering, damaging, or misusing usually followed by with):
Someone has been tampering with the lock.
2. to make changes in something, especially in order to falsify (usually followed by with):
to tamper with official records.
3. to engage secretly or improperly in something.
4. to engage in underhand or corrupt dealings, especially in order to influence improperly (usually followed by with):
Any lawyer who tries to tamper with a jury should be disbarred.

i suspect that's not exactly what you meant)

(although actually it would be pretty funny if you did. forgive me if i stepped on your punch line.)


Lets say ..... i just belife a Statistic as far as i can draw a Line with my Feet. In most Cases i just shake my Sholder and guess it is probably true. But beside that, i want see the Details, since you can do many things with it and what you want that it looks like. We had this Point more than enough in the last few Months about the Wagegape about Woman and Man here in Austria, even when nearly all Jobs have a Collectivcontract and a fixum about the how much you get payed. And then some People come up and say that there is a 30% difference because of the Gender. Didnt tooked long till it was clear that its not so simple.

But yes, you are right with your guess. I was talking more about to let a Statistic be directed into the Way you want it to sound. Not directly to alter something for real.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 21238
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well - it does help if you know what you are doing when you produce a statistic (ideally, so you do it right, not so you get the answer you want). but the fact that a lot of things are more complicated than they look at first glance is exactly why statistics exist.
_________________
aka: neverscared!
a flux of vibrant matter
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jack



Joined: 29 Mar 2014
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter Bagge recently did a strip for Reason Magazine about sex trafficking and the lack of evidence that it's an actual problem in the US. I'm not a libertarian or a fan of Reason, but I usually agree with him.

https://reason.com/archives/2018/04/09/the-weaker-sex#slide1
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group