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June 15, 2018: Repair 13
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Caimsen



Joined: 12 Jun 2014
Posts: 783
Location: The good old World

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Taemon
I hope you never learn german, because sexism in language got taken there to a different Level. And not in a good Way.


@Irinei:Lets say the Internet got very complicated the last 2 or 3 Years about gender and what you should say or are allowed to say.
Problem is, you can't tell anymore sometimes, if People are trolling or dead serious about it.
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Taemon



Joined: 08 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm Dutch. We get German in school.
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Leohan



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caimsen wrote:
@Taemon
I hope you never learn german, because sexism in language got taken there to a different Level. And not in a good Way.

I did. Out of sheer curiosity, what do you mean?
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sammich



Joined: 20 Jun 2012
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strix Varia wrote:
sammich wrote:
Strix Varia wrote:
Actually it could be a bit to soon to tell. She could just be getting permission, clearing traps, or announcing his presence. It could be standard procedure for any visitor. She gave away the door and the daily password which suggests she isn't to worried about secrecy at the moment. I'd say lets watch the next couple comics to see how this progresses before becoming insta-triggered.


Reminds me of a German saying, "I've got a labor camp to sell you." You see people as two different things, you treat them as two different things. We create arbitrary distinctions, even if there is a material indistinguishability. You treat them as different, so long as you care in the least, you see one as better than the other. Care enough and you may grow contemptuous of the lesser one.


The idea of waiting to get all the facts before jumping to a conclusion reminds you of a German labor camp? I think your mind works in strange and mysterious ways.


This comic is a data point. The last 900 or so pages are a trend. If you can't see where this is going, you don't want to. There are only a few possible attractors remaining and none of them involve the sisterhood learning to see humans as human.
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Caimsen



Joined: 12 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taemon wrote:
I'm Dutch. We get German in school.


Please tell me that you Guys dont have the Problem that some People try to make everything including if it comes to words like "The Teacher", so that you have to write the male Teacher/ the female Teacher, so that everybody is mention, just because the first word has two meanings, even if its 99,99% clear that both are ment.
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Vixine



Joined: 12 Jan 2016
Posts: 368

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taemon wrote:
Odemon wrote:
why do they need a password, if they only allow females anyway?

"Women". If they only allow "women". Try it in a sentence sometimes.

Nnnno, I think considering all the SWERF, the TERF that goes with it says this is a very-specifically-"females"-only deal.
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Zhuinden



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irinei wrote:
Samsally wrote:
women are human. females are anyfuckingthing that has a uterus.

i can see where it specifically harms trans women in its weirdly pointed exclusion of them, but this is an all woman thing as well because reducing anyone to their reproductive organs dehumanizing.

plus its only ever really used in a derogatory way.


Ah, I had never considered it in that way. I think I have used the term before, but never with derogatory or dehumanizing intent. I had always considered "females" interchangeable with "women and girls". But I can see where some people might take offense. Thanks for the explanation.


Don't believe 'em though. You have a nation issued ID card, what does it say? "M" and "F" referring to "MALE" and "FEMALE".

There's nothing dehumanizing about defining sex.

Yes, Theo was prohibited from entering because he's male, and the mini-IT-girl (don't even remember her name) was allowed to enter because she's female.

Although this comic generally argues that "the penis" is an instrument of rape, and inherently makes everyone succumb to desires of lust and dehumanization of all women (see previous comic where he has to "snap out of it")
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Caimsen



Joined: 12 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
Caimsen wrote:
@Taemon
I hope you never learn german, because sexism in language got taken there to a different Level. And not in a good Way.

I did. Out of sheer curiosity, what do you mean?


I knew i forgot something. Wanted to answer you. Sorry ^^;


Well, thing is we have a little Group in the Politics who thinks the biggest Chance to fix all Problems would be to rap the german language or at least rewrite it. They think that there must be allways the female Version written when we have an unisex Word what includes both Man and Woman. Like "die Lehrer" what can mean the male Teacher or all Teacher. There are hundrets of simular Cases. Normaly you know that all are meant, but somehow the Group managed that you would have to write der/die Lehrer/innen. What makes it impossible to make a sane sentence. They think that if you have to say the female Version of the Word, it makes Woman more present and that People would recognize them more, understands them more ect.
What is real plain stupid and !"ยง@=?. You have to think a bit around to Corner for that logic and the People who would need to think more about it are rather "simple" People. Who wont get anything what it would be about. Beside, most educated People have a rather equal opinion about man and woman. I haven't found a single Person until now, who thinks this is a good Idea. It just makes People angry, waisted Time and Energy with such a rather nonsence Topic and doesnt solve any Problems. Big surprise that this is just a Agenda for a few Students and a few People in the high Politics.
Beside, it is not like there are no real neutral Words, who cant be interpreted and allways mean both Genders.
At least it looks like for the next 4 Years, there wont be much to hear about this or just a minimum in some Newspapers of the extrem left.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i had forgotten about the 'innen' forms (it's a long time since i took german).

so sort of similar to the way english used to add 'ess' to indicate a women held the job: actress, stewardess, doctoress. some of them seem to have died out quickly (doctoress), others have been pushed out with the object of equalizing the people who do that job (actresses are now pretty much always referred to as actors), some have been replaced by new, non-gendered terms (so both stewards and stewardesses on planes are now flight attendants). there are still a few where women seem to be welded into the job, like seamstress (was there ever a seamer?)


.....this probably does nothing to resolve the issues with german, since it sounds like the group you are talking about wants to multiply feminine endings rather than group people into something that is or becomes unisex.


oh, by the way, i didn't mention this earlier, but i want to stick up a bit for 'female' - it isn't always negative. scientific (specifically medical) literature pretty much always denotes people as male and female (although maybe not in work that specifically is on transgender people - not my area of expertise).
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think its pretty weird and inappropriate to drop technical medical terms into casual conversations. at best using it makes people look ignorant of social skills specifically because at worst it is often used in a really derogatory way.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, true - but some of us are used to using it at work. and sometimes people's work terminology can slop over into casual use, without any intent of being derogatory or intending to slam anyone's social skills or knowledge base or anything else. i tend to feel you can pick up when it is derogatory by context and tone, but i may not be sufficiently sensitive.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, i agree that tone and context matter. in this case, we're on a forum so there is no tone, and the context was pretty ambiguous. its not too surprising someone took issue *shrug*
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Taemon



Joined: 08 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zhuinden wrote:
Irinei wrote:
Samsally wrote:
women are human. females are anyfuckingthing that has a uterus.

i can see where it specifically harms trans women in its weirdly pointed exclusion of them, but this is an all woman thing as well because reducing anyone to their reproductive organs dehumanizing.

plus its only ever really used in a derogatory way.


Ah, I had never considered it in that way. I think I have used the term before, but never with derogatory or dehumanizing intent. I had always considered "females" interchangeable with "women and girls". But I can see where some people might take offense. Thanks for the explanation.

Don't believe 'em though. You have a nation issued ID card, what does it say? "M" and "F" referring to "MALE" and "FEMALE".

There's nothing dehumanizing about defining sex.

Your gender is male or female (other choices aren't allowed yet) but you aren't. You are a male or female person. You aren't a male or a female.
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Taemon



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
there are still a few where women seem to be welded into the job, like seamstress (was there ever a seamer?)

Isn't that called a tailor, of which there is no female form? Something tells me that a tailor is valued higher than a seamstress.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i often went by "stitcher" when i sewed professionally.
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