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June 27, 2018: Repair 25
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Argus



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:43 pm    Post subject: June 27, 2018: Repair 25 Reply with quote



Because everyone completely ignores the issues of trafficking or pimps in any of their discussions forever.
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Vixine



Joined: 12 Jan 2016
Posts: 368

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conflating people defending pimping and exploitation with feminists who support ethical, self-employed sex work, as per usual.
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Argus



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vixine wrote:
people defending pimping and exploitation

Has anyone actually ever seen this people? Not the ones doing it, but the ones defending it?
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Zilla



Joined: 08 Jun 2016
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vixine wrote:
Conflating people defending pimping and exploitation with feminists who support ethical, self-employed sex work, as per usual.


Thank you! That's exactly it.
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Zilla



Joined: 08 Jun 2016
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Argus wrote:
Vixine wrote:
people defending pimping and exploitation

Has anyone actually ever seen this people? Not the ones doing it, but the ones defending it?


Now that you mention it, I did see this guy standing out in a field of crops with his arms out...
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Sam the Eagle



Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 2685
Location: 192.168.0.1

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vixine wrote:
Conflating people defending pimping and exploitation with feminists who support ethical, self-employed sex work, as per usual.


That's just half of the equation and you know it.
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Auric



Joined: 21 Jan 2016
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Location: New Brunswick, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Choosing doesn't mean no take backs.
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Vixine



Joined: 12 Jan 2016
Posts: 368

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Auric wrote:
Choosing doesn't mean no take backs.


Agency means the ability to take back the choice, yes.

The objections to the SWERF tone of the comic are that it presumes that sex workers inherently lack agency, because for some reason it's an impossibility for a person to voluntarily do, because in the world of the comic, all sex work involves exploited women being pimped out by men.

By the things sinfest has established, me saying something which should be non-controversial as "a person should be able* to choose to make porn, and there is nothing wrong with enjoying porn that has been ethically produced as such" puts me on the same level as Sleeze here.

*yes, meaning both able legally and also not required by their life situation to do so, this SHOULD be implied, but it has to be explicitly stated as such because SWERFs refuse to believe anyone ever does sex work without being forced to, directly or indirectly, and accuse people who say otherwise that they're defending people being exploited, because again, in their minds, these things are mutually exclusive. The patriarchy code literally puts "sex worker choice" in the same grid as "don't talk about exploitation and trafficking". And presumes all sex workers are women. And all the people doing the trafficking/exploitation are men.
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Taemon



Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 2184
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sometimes read fanfic porn. I guess I'm as bad a Sleaze.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 11363

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interestingly enough re: this comic

we actually specifically had a discussion point brought up about how sex worker orgs continually feel like they are obligated to discuss and continuously vociferously reaffirm their clear and significant investments in anti-trafficking work and advocacy -- because sex worker exclusionary groups from swerfs to organized religion to republicans constantly and consistently equate sex work advocacy as "supporting trafficking"

it is inexorably similar in effect to how marijuana legalization efforts are always discussed versus people who assume it's an effort to advance children being sold drugs
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 11363

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but on the same point i suppose it's worth saying that one part of the comic is unironically true:

yes. talk about women's choice.
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KALXAK



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 181
Location: Rogue

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*clap clap* fucking amazing
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Leohan



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1881

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did those conversations with TinT go again...

- I believe that men and women should be free to legally exercise sex work as a profession if they so choose.

- So I guess you don't care about the trafficking of women and girls

- What? No! Just the opposite, sex work should be regulated in order to avoid the creation of markets based on human trafficking, by both promoting respect towards sex workers and letting the authorities focus in the worst components of sex work, namely pimping and trafficking.

- So I guess you don't care about the trafficking of women and girls

- I just told you the opposite! There's a historical context in which harmful markets and traffic flourishes when certain services are unavailable and sex work is no different. As a matter of fact, here are some articles and peer reviewed essays with statistical data explaining how in countries with legal sex work human trafficking diminishes.

- SO I GUESS YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE TRAFFICKING OF WOMEN AND GIRLS
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Caimsen



Joined: 12 Jun 2014
Posts: 783
Location: The good old World

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:

- What? No! Just the opposite, sex work should be regulated in order to avoid the creation of markets based on human trafficking, by both promoting respect towards sex workers and letting the authorities focus in the worst components of sex work, namely pimping and trafficking.


We have that here in Austria and it doesnt fix the Problem once and for all. There are still illegal Prostetutes. Even some underage from time to time.

Taemon wrote:
I sometimes read fanfic porn. I guess I'm as bad a Sleaze.


Well, since all Porn is evil and turn even a Saint into a Devil .....
It is somehow ironicly that something like that happens in sinfest.
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Leohan



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1881

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caimsen wrote:
Leohan wrote:

- What? No! Just the opposite, sex work should be regulated in order to avoid the creation of markets based on human trafficking, by both promoting respect towards sex workers and letting the authorities focus in the worst components of sex work, namely pimping and trafficking.


We have that here in Austria and it doesnt fix the Problem once and for all. There are still illegal Prostetutes. Even some underage from time to time.

I won't claim it to be an absolute solution. I'm not smart enough to come up with a way to completely eliminate illegal, exploitative sex work. Still, I think having the alternative be legal might help. And the statistics in a lot of the studies posted here seem to agree.
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