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Fake Feminism?
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Inganni



Joined: 04 Oct 2016
Posts: 20
Location: SD

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:57 pm    Post subject: Fake Feminism? Reply with quote

It's been on the rise lately and is mostly pushed by baby boomers that stopped learning.

What are your experiences with having to deal with this bigotry dressed up as feminism? How do you think it's harming our progress as feminists today?
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Sam the Eagle



Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 2685
Location: 192.168.0.1

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fake news is just an ephemeral phenomena, a new coat of paint over the old propaganda beef. Mostly US, and in a lesser way, Europe centered.

If you look elsewhere, you'll see feminism is making strides in its own way. Thinking Japan and especially South Korea here. Africa is making good progress too.

Don't sell feminism(*) short because of one backward step in one place.

(*) my definition of feminism is what JWings said on the third post in the feminism thread. Transgenders or sex workers, you're all cordially invited too, as is anyone as long as you don't push forward your own agenda over any other in-egalitarian form (looking at you Tat).
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Inganni



Joined: 04 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fake news is not the same thing. That's an anti-media message from the Trump administration to hide their lies. Not what I meant.

And sure, feminism is making great strides. Feminism itself is what I fight for daily. I'm well aware it's a movement.

(Which feminism thread?)

No, views that are simply conservative bigots claiming to be feminists. And that sort of 'cordially invited' statement seems to be close to what I meant. Sex workers, which are majority female, are 100% in the 'feminism zone'. (I can't find better wording.) Non-cis women are as well. Excluding those people or saying 'well its not about you' is, in my opinion, wrong.
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0z79



Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 584

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inganni wrote:
Fake news is not the same thing. That's an anti-media message from the Trump administration to hide their lies. Not what I meant.

And sure, feminism is making great strides. Feminism itself is what I fight for daily. I'm well aware it's a movement.

(Which feminism thread?)

No, views that are simply conservative bigots claiming to be feminists. And that sort of 'cordially invited' statement seems to be close to what I meant. Sex workers, which are majority female, are 100% in the 'feminism zone'. (I can't find better wording.) Non-cis women are as well. Excluding those people or saying 'well its not about you' is, in my opinion, wrong.


We need another term for news which is false and/or inflammatory. Oh, look at this one, just laying around since the late 18th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism
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Zilla



Joined: 08 Jun 2016
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might want to call it "Orange journalism" these days.

But on the actual topic, it's a relic of a bygone era, and it hurts the movement by fracturing the support base. Feminism should be uplifting for everyone, just that women have a lot more distance to be uplifted out of our current broken system. But any rhetoric that excludes and divides us is going to weaken the message and invite strawman comparisons.

Ultimately, regressive feminism is a dead-end path. It's a worldview that isn't even centered on goals, but on methods and structures. If it cared about achieving equality and promoting rights, it wouldn't seek to set up identitarian conflicts. It would accept help and unity. It wouldn't set up people as the enemy. It would focus on the power structures and the messages of gender roles, and it would paint bad policy as the enemy.

Basically, it's dying for a reason. It's not effective. It's a short-sighted form of feminism, with the right goals, but the wrong methods.
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Inganni



Joined: 04 Oct 2016
Posts: 20
Location: SD

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point, orange or yellow journalism.

And regressive feminism does sound better than fake feminism! Wording matters so much.

I do hope it dies out sooner rather than later but with the massive amount of conservatives and trump supporters it will be a battle.

Though I did find this image to be a good jumping point:


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Zilla



Joined: 08 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh shit I know the person who made that! She also has a webcomic, Manic Pixie Nightmare Girl.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 11363

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Inganni



Joined: 04 Oct 2016
Posts: 20
Location: SD

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh? Do you have a link to their current stuff?


And good image sam!
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ChastMastr



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 533
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, US

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reece Lyons: "I am a woman and I have a penis." The Last Word Festival celebrates and encourages bold and fearless storytelling from established and emerging artists.
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Sam the Eagle



Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 2685
Location: 192.168.0.1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inganni wrote:

(Which feminism thread?)



This one, Jwing's post is the third down.
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TinT



Joined: 20 Aug 2014
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TRAs: We're out there destroying gender!

TRAs: Gender is an innate, inexorable part of our being! Not playing along with our gender fantasy is literal murder!

TRAs: <<performance of gender stereotypes associated with the biological sex they appropriate>>

The misogynistic wing of trans activism is an irredeemable, irreconcilable mess of contradiction and nonsense.
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Vixine



Joined: 12 Jan 2016
Posts: 368

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TinT wrote:
TRAs: We're out there destroying gender!

TRAs: Gender is an innate, inexorable part of our being! Not playing along with our gender fantasy is literal murder!

TRAs: <<performance of gender stereotypes associated with the biological sex they appropriate>>

The misogynistic wing of trans activism is an irredeemable, irreconcilable mess of contradiction and nonsense.


Literally what even are you trying to say here, besides spitting bile?
Take your hate-spewing back to pissworld.
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Nobody Important



Joined: 18 Jan 2016
Posts: 843

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TinT wrote:
TRAs: We're out there destroying gender!


Most of their focus here is on gender roles and stereotypes. Which we can all agree need to be abolished.

TinT wrote:
TRAs: Gender is an innate, inexorable part of our being! Not playing along with our gender fantasy is literal murder!


Gender identity is seen as innate. Gender identity is not the same as gender roles. And it's not a fantasy.

TinT wrote:
TRAs: <<performance of gender stereotypes associated with the biological sex they appropriate>>


Gender euphoria and dysphoria goes far beyond stereotypes. They're how we respond to gender/sex with our body, mind, and environment. Many trans women are so euphoric about being treated in a way that's coded female after transitioning because they're finally allowed to be feminine, and be seen as feminine, without getting endlessly harassed.

Trans women who look like men are forced to be treated as men, gender roles and all. Male gender roles are already awful for cis men but it's much worse when we don't even want to be men. Most of our gender euphoria comes from having our biology corrected. I think that even if gender roles were abolished there will still be trans people based on bodily dysphoria alone.

I know that you're probably not gonna believe me because you didn't when we had this argument all those other times. So I'll only say one more thing. If you keep misgendering everyone here, and continue asserting that trans people aren't valid, then please leave. Most of the people on the new forum align perfectly with your views. So if you want to discuss Sinfest with your fellow SWERFs and TERFs than you can just go there instead.
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Caimsen



Joined: 12 Jun 2014
Posts: 783
Location: The good old World

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody Important wrote:


Most of their focus here is on gender roles and stereotypes. Which we can all agree need to be abolished.


Wouldnt that mean you would have to thread all People the same? I mean, we all react to a Woman a bit other than to a Man. Because people react in a certain way by themself.
To abolish stereotyps would mean that everybody would have to act the same. Woman act different compared to man. There is a pattern in that. Thats why we have so many stereotyps, even if some are totaly false, some are in many cases true.
With gender roles it is something simular. You will allways have a certain bahaviour for them. Nearly all act ether masculin or feminin, or in a simular way. It is rather rare that somebody acts different. Maybe in a higher position, where it is just about money and power. There mostly your willpower counts, but even then its not that simple.

This gets more complicated, the more you think abou tit.....
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