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andrew



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 4495
Location: the raging sea

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sparrowhawk wrote:
Not quite. From what I've seen Him makes references to his relationship, yes, but it is a few posters who blow up that to become the issue around which the thread must hinge. I doubt it is the majority, but my point stands regardless. Him should be able to speak as openly about his relationship as any other poster, as his relationship seems to have nothing substantively wrong with it...


If that's what you want, then there's no argument: he IS allowed to speak as openly about his relationship as any other poster. We're in a public, unmoderated forum; there are no rules about it, and no one is stopping him.

And again, we're allowed to say whatever we want about that relationship, or any other that gets shared on the forum.

Quote:
...besides the aforementioned icky feelings for little andrew.


For clarification: when and where did I say anything with regard to how I feel about Him's relationship? Nothing I've said in this thread gives any indication as to how I feel about it personally; if you're interested, though, I've corresponded with Him in PM about why he receives the reactions he does on the forum, and our conversation was civil and unjudgemental.

But in case you're wondering what gives away your immaturity and/or unintelligence...

Quote:
Hm. You're claiming maturity now?


No, I'm claiming you're immature.

Come to think of it, you might just be unintelligent, but in ways that signify a lack of maturity.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3316

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot MAKE him cease discussing his relationship, what i can do is tell him it bothers me, and let him know that if he keeps it to himself, he wont have to deal with my disgust and outrage. He agreed. I dont really see how its any of your business Sparrowhawk. l
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andrew



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 4495
Location: the raging sea

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sparrowhawk wrote:
The laws standpoint is immaterial in regards to this relationship because it is not in force against them.


The law's standpoint is very relevant, since it reflects the attitudes of the majority; since you're attempting to defy the majority, it's pretty important to account for what the majority has deemed "immoral" to the point of labeling it "illegal."

Quote:
The moral view of "most people" is also immaterial.


You're attempting to convince people that their reactions to Him are unjustified. Since their justification for the attacks is seated in the prevailing worldview of sex between a minor and an adult, how is it immaterial?
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Teh Digital Dragon



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 1888
Location: THE WORLD OF LARNING.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sparrowhawk wrote:
Teh Digital Dragon wrote:

The moral and legal point is the same: a 14 year-old child can not give informed consent. You might disagree with this (and I'd be interested to hear what you think the age of consent should be) and I acknowledge it may not apply to all 14 year olds, but it is the law's standpoint, and the moral view of most people.


The laws standpoint is immaterial in regards to this relationship because it is not in force against them.

The law has apparently not been used in this case, but sex with a 14 year old is still illegal in sweden and most of the world. I bring this up because of the reasoning behind the law: that 14 year olds can not give consent. You still haven't responded to this view.

Sparrowhawk wrote:
You acknowledge that your moral argument may not apply to all fourteen year olds. Why?

Why do I acknowledge it or why might it not apply?

People mature at different rates, and it may be possible for a fourteen year old to have matured enough to give informed consent.

Sparrowhawk wrote:
The moral view of "most people" is also immaterial.

Perhaps, but it gives you a nice entry point into explaining to me why most people are wrong, what the age of consent should be and whether exceptions can be made. Your moral view in short.
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Lemontree



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3298

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seraphine wrote:
*joins in the garland making, occasionally eating a few pieces*

This is much more peaceful, no?


Absolutely! And productive.. huzzah us! Very Happy
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Sparrowhawk



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andrew wrote:

If that's what you want, then there's no argument: he IS allowed to speak as openly about his relationship as any other poster. We're in a public, unmoderated forum; there are no rules about it, and no one is stopping him.

And again, we're allowed to say whatever we want about that relationship, or any other that gets shared on the forum.


Implied in "...as any other poster" includes a freedom from derogatory comments directed at this relationship. While people are free to be assholes, treating Him's relationship as any other would include ignoring it if you don't like it.

andrew wrote:
For clarification: when and where did I say anything with regard to how I feel about Him's relationship?


I see. So this "anti-pedo gag reflex" you cited is not your reaction?

andrew wrote:
But in case you're wondering what gives away your immaturity and/or unintelligence...


???

andrew wrote:
No, I'm claiming you're immature.


I'm aware. I should have clarified as: "With this statement you're claiming more maturity than I possess?"

andrew wrote:
Come to think of it, you might just be unintelligent, but in ways that signify a lack of maturity.


With this statement you're claiming more maturity than I possess? That's a laugh.
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Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9702
Location: I have to be somewhere? ::runs around frantically::

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really, this has gotten ridiculous.

Guess what, people are giving Him a hard time. He probably doesn't even deserve it so Sparowhawk as a point regardless of his personal motivations. I suspect some of the other 'festers are pissed at Him because they have been in/ know people in sexually abusive situations with women of a young age. This is a problem and will come out in any discussion that revolves around an 18 year old having sex with a 14 year old.

If you don't like Him, fine but all this bashing has got to fucking stop. I'm not saying that we should all be lovey dovey to him since he does come off as dogmatic and irritating to many but this on going debate is retarded.

Him shouldn't get bashed on for expressing his like for sex but he should also remember that there are many people affected by sexual abuse that resemble his situation. The reminders, regardless of how benign the actual relationship is, are painful to many.

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After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3316

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:
Really, this has gotten ridiculous.

Guess what, people are giving Him a hard time. He probably doesn't even deserve it so Sparowhawk as a point regardless of his personal motivations. I suspect some of the other 'festers are pissed at Him because they have been in/ know people in sexually abusive situations with women of a young age. This is a problem and will come out in any discussion that revolves around an 18 year old having sex with a 14 year old.

If you don't like Him, fine but all this bashing has got to fucking stop. I'm not saying that we should all be lovey dovey to him since he does come off as dogmatic and irritating to many but this on going debate is retarded.

Him shouldn't get bashed on for expressing his like for sex but he should also remember that there are many people affected by sexual abuse that resemble his situation. The reminders, regardless of how benign the actual relationship is, are painful to many.



It was on its way to stopping, then captain 'i just registered to argue this point' came in. We're gonna get a good 20 pages out of this.
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Teh Digital Dragon



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 1888
Location: THE WORLD OF LARNING.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think everyone's pretty much moved on to a somewhat broader discussion with sparrowhawk now.
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Sparrowhawk



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
I cannot MAKE him cease discussing his relationship, what i can do is tell him it bothers me, and let him know that if he keeps it to himself, he wont have to deal with my disgust and outrage. He agreed. I dont really see how its any of your business Sparrowhawk. l


Or you could keep your disgust and outrage to yourself. It really is your own problem, after all.

It's my business in that I find it offensive that you ask another to keep their relationship to themself when there is little to nothing substantively wrong with that relationship, or at least nothing to that effect has been established.
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Sparrowhawk



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andrew wrote:
The law's standpoint is ...


I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Teh Digital Dragon was capable of replying to me.
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andrew



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 4495
Location: the raging sea

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sparrowhawk wrote:
Implied in "...as any other poster" includes a freedom from derogatory comments directed at this relationship. While people are free to be assholes, treating Him's relationship as any other would include ignoring it if you don't like it.


On this forum? No, no it wouldn't.

Quote:
I see. So this "anti-pedo gag reflex" you cited is not your reaction?


Nope. What part of the sentence it appears in indicates it's mine?

Quote:
With this statement you're claiming more maturity than I possess? That's a laugh.


I almost wish you knew me, so you could see just how funny this is.
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Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9702
Location: I have to be somewhere? ::runs around frantically::

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Sparowhawk, you don't get a pass either. Being right and proud of it doesn't get you friends, especially when "meeting" them for the first time.

We discuss a lot of things here and outrage and discust is part of that. Make your point calmly and nicely. Would you start yelling at people and telling them they were wrong in a beligerent manner if you met them face to face? The same applies on the internet.

_________________
Before God created Las he pondered on all the aspects a woman might have, he considered which ones would look good super-inflated and which ones to leave alone.
After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael
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andrew



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 4495
Location: the raging sea

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sparrowhawk wrote:
andrew wrote:
The law's standpoint is ...


I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Teh Digital Dragon was capable of replying to me.


You posted in a public thread on a public forum and are getting pettily upset that someone else replied to you?

If you don't want anyone but the addressed person to reply to you, use a PM - that's what they're for.

You're only adding fuel to the immaturity fire under your feet, though.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3316

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry that my emotional and gut reaction that stems from bad personal experiences doesnt meet your standard of logic. By all means use your standard of logic as to why I or anyone here should care about the opinions of someone who solely registered to the forum to extend an argument about someone he admittedly has no experience with, and no knowledge of the background the community has with him, much less the manner in which I used to treat his posting of his problems.

You have yet to expose why I should care what you think, or change my behavior to suit someone I dont know, and frankly could give two shits about. Hell I care more about what HIM thinks, hence my offer of a compromise.
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