Is there any way to bring back the light-heartedness?

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QuietReader
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Is there any way to bring back the light-heartedness?

Post by QuietReader » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:50 pm

Hi there, to anyone who is reading this. I don’t really know if this post belongs in the Comic discussion or in general discussion, but I think it’s in the right spot for now. I’m sorry if it’s not, and I can move it to the general discussion board if you’d prefer.

So I started reading this webcomic along with a dozen other webcomics a few years ago. I forget when exactly. But I started at the first page on the webcomic, and while I know that the early days weren’t perfect and they had a lot of problems, I enjoyed the 'Calvin and Hobbes' newspaper style of the comic. I enjoyed how goofy and silly all the characters were. I liked how they talked about important issues but never really took a side and never took anything too seriously. I liked how even in a world of evil, vice, and sin, everyone had a light-hearted spirit to them that never faded.

I mean, I know there were lots of problems in the old comics. Way too many sexist, racist, and politically incorrect jokes that left a bad taste. But it felt as if the author and the characters didn’t really believe any of the hateful things they said in those jokes, they just did it for the sake of ‘Crossing the Line Twice’ kind of comedy. I could be wrong though.

My favourite characters in the comic are Criminy and Fuchsia. I love to read about characters who, well love to read. I liked how they were some of the nicest, purest and most polite characters in the whole comic. Fuchsia may have started out as evil, but she quickly became a good person and I just love how they never give up on their innocence and never fall into complete despair. I was really sad to see Criminy make less and less appearances in the comic. The angels Ezekiel and Ariel are close seconds when it comes to best characters but I just love reading about shy, kind hearted bookworms more.

But these days it feels like everything is too dramatic, grim, and hopeless. The comedy, light-heartedness, and any hint of happiness seems to have vanished from the characters within comic. Almost everyone in the comic has this look on their face like they’re uncontrollably angry, depressed, or even suicidal. Or maybe I’m reading too much into things…

Not every comic has been depressing. The comics that make fun of the Donald Trump Illuminati Drone are perfect comedic gold. I’m always horrified at the stunts Trump keeps trying to pull, so any opportunity to mock him is welcome. There’s also the recent comic with Amber getting her own social justice channel, even though the devil is trying to manipulate her. That’s an interesting storyline that I really hope has a happy ending.

Either way, I’d like to ask the author if things could be more light-hearted again, if it’s not too much to ask? I would really like it if Criminy, Fuchsia, and the angels could make more appearances. It would also be nice if Slick and Monique could rekindle their friendship. I don’t know if Slick has actually met Absinthe or Abby in person, but with how messed up Slick’s mind and soul has become due to that evil Sleaze character, I feel like maybe Slick could learn to be a better person with some positivity. It would be really nice if Slick could show more support for Monique and her new girlfriend too.

I’m hoping maybe the author of the comic would like to talk about this, as long as he’s okay with that. I suppose I could try to email him but I don’t know if that would be too out of line. I don’t want to bother him too much. There is another user on here called Z6IIAB, who talks about the comic pretty frequently too. I could try talking to that person (I don't want to assume genders) about what we like about comic, if Z6IIAB is reading this and is open for debate or wants to talk to me.

If anything that I’ve said is incorrect in anyway, I’m really sorry about that. I’ll try to fix any mistakes I might have done if you can tell me what they are. I’m not looking for any trouble and I don’t want to offend anyone. I don’t have a lot of experience with discussion boards like this and I don’t always know what the right thing to say in social situations is. But this is something that I feel kind of strongly about, and I feel like this is hopefully the right thing to do.

And if anyone is interested, I wrote a five-page little fan-story about the comic. It kind of sticks with the comic’s current dramatic message but finishes on a positive note. It’s a story about how the devil tries to manipulate Absinthe into a sadistic choice and how instead she walks away as a stronger person. I tried to write it how I imagine the character’s thought patterns would work, so I hope I did this little mini-story justice. I could put it up here as its own post or maybe put in a fanfiction link.

progan01
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Post by progan01 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:35 pm

Tat's on a mission. The journey must play itself out. Sorry if you're not amused.
What is to give light must endure burning.

—-Viktor Frankl

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:39 am

progan01 wrote:Tat's on a mission. The journey must play itself out. Sorry if you're not amused.

Image
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

Newfish
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Post by Newfish » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:14 pm

I can see why you'd feel that way, especially if you've come to the comic recently (but started at the beginning) and had the change go really quick. The comic's been around for the better part of two decades; the author's almost twenty years more experienced than when he started. There've been some gaps where I pretty much thought the comic was done.

The original doesn't take anything seriously. The new version takes serious things seriously, and it can feel unrelenting because of that, but there's still humor and brightness. Hell, it's more upbeat and optimistic than I feel most of the time.

Personally I miss Pooch & Percy...

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:12 pm

Newfish wrote:The original doesn't take anything seriously. The new version takes serious things seriously, and it can feel unrelenting because of that, but there's still humor and brightness. Hell, it's more upbeat and optimistic than I feel most of the time.
Agreed.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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Ingun
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Post by Ingun » Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:09 am

I started reading Sinfest in 2001, I was 15 or 16 when I started and I found it , along with a lot of other early favourites, on Keenspot. I loved the silly, irreverent jokes and the art style reminded me of Calvin & Hobbes. Back then I thought a lot of the more uh... problematic... elements of Sinfest were genuinely funny, and I tried to ignore the parts that made me uncomfortable. Early 2000's humor, webcomic humor especially was... decidedly bro-ish, favoured shock value and in my opinion Sinfest was one of the works that defined that type of comic, too. Back then the Webcomics world was much smaller, and Sinfest stood out as a comic that was looked polished, updated consistently and just had a high level of technical proficiency compared to many of its contemporaries. Sinfest received a lot of criticism for its art style ("SLICK LOOKS LIKE CALVIN OMG") and content, but it also had a lot of fierce defenders and quite a few imitators on Keenspace and elsewhere. All of that is easy to forget, especially if one found the comic in the 2010's. I feel like just looking at the comic by itself is not looking at the whole picture, but so much of that early internet stuff like Bigpanda is lost now, so its hard to say how much and in what form Sinfest shaped the webcomics that came after it. I don't know how much of that history influences Tat's actions and how he handles the comic now, but if you had told me in 2001 that one of my bookmarked comics would still be going 17 years later, carrying the banner of radical feminism... well, Sinfest certainly wouldn't have been my first guess.

Anyway, long story short, I became interested in feminism and queer theory and cut out a lot of media that I just couldn't enjoy anymore. When I heard about the changes in Sinfest, I was quite wary of how Tat represented the sisterhood. Xanthe on her tricycle at first looked to me like just another joke, a parody of feminism. Oh look she's a feminist, and also she's a toddler who is way too cool for school, yeah yeah whatever. But the comic managed to win me over again over the course of these past few years.

I have a lot of feelings about the current state of the comic, but imo the important thing to remember is that it's still Tat's comic. I don't think asking him to change the comic like I have seen here and especially on the other forum is productive and kind of... well, I don't think it's particularly fair to ask someone to change what they do for hours a day and that you read in a minute or two. We all get invested in these fictional characters, but no one is more invested than Tat. And to be quite honest, there's a million comics out there today with cute animals and fun jokes, but there's not a lot of comics talking about radical feminism!

2018 is... a grim year. Ever since gamergate there have been huge online harrassment campaigns aimed at silencing women, and it has ramped up so much in 2017 and 18. Sexual violence is downplayed and women are accused of lying and bullied into silence. The world right now reminds me of 1920's and 1930's Berlin, a city with a flourishing gay life, spaces for women to be free that were just... completely eradicated in the span of a few short years. I am very concerned it will go this way again, this time across the pond from me.

In short, things have really been better for a lot of people.

Tat is obviously very politically interested, and it's just... it can seem almost obsecene to enjoy a comic about a cat and dog and their cool artist master flying around in the sky while drawing fun comics when elsewhere awful shit is going down. No one should feel guilty for wanting to see and read happy stuff (no one can bear the weight of the entire world, after all) but I don't blame Tat at all for not wanting to draw fluffy comics atm.

Anyway, that's my own jumbled garbage thoughts on this topic, also hi!

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:22 pm

Ingun wrote: I feel like just looking at the comic by itself is not looking at the whole picture [...] Anyway, long story short, I became interested in feminism and queer theory and cut out a lot of media that I just couldn't enjoy anymore. When I heard about the changes in Sinfest, I was quite wary of how Tat represented the sisterhood. Xanthe on her tricycle at first looked to me like just another joke, a parody of feminism. Oh look she's a feminist, and also she's a toddler who is way too cool for school, yeah yeah whatever. But the comic managed to win me over again over the course of these past few years.
I sorta agree with you here, even thought I started reading Sinfest on my 17s and about 6 years after you.
Ingun wrote: [...] the important thing to remember is that it's still Tat's comic. I don't think asking him to change the comic like I have seen here and especially on the other forum is productive and kind of... well, I don't think it's particularly fair to ask someone to change what they do for hours a day and that you read in a minute or two. We all get invested in these fictional characters, but no one is more invested than Tat. And to be quite honest, there's a million comics out there today with cute animals and fun jokes, but there's not a lot of comics talking about radical feminism!

I couldn't agree MORE, bolded that part because it's basically what the old forum resumed to: agressive headcanons and hostilzation of the story's actual canon.
Ingun wrote: 2018 is... a grim year. Ever since gamergate there have been huge online harrassment campaigns aimed at silencing women, and it has ramped up so much in 2017 and 18. Sexual violence is downplayed and women are accused of lying and bullied into silence. [...] I am very concerned it will go this way again [...]
Agree.

And hi! Welcome to the fest ^^! The world might be shit but we don't have to sit here and just take it. I think that's the reason for this forum, since the old one is pretty much about silencing dissenting women's voices.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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cesarastudillo
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Post by cesarastudillo » Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:50 pm

I started reading Sinfest in the Keenspot era and I think it has been getting better and better. Once you start seeing things from the perspective of radical feminism there's no going back. But this is a rough path to follow for us men because every privilege we admit is a merit we deny ourselves. I enjoy coming back to Sinfest every single day. Seventeen years ago I came to enjoy his irreverent but insightful perspective on everything, and now I come exactly for the same. Tat just has chosen a different target for his irreverence.
César Astudillo

Innokentius
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Post by Innokentius » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:15 am

Sinfest was just better at the beginning. Just because the author didn't take sides. Now he's a radical - and a radical is always narrow-minded. Can't blame him for that, but my opinion - the series have lost that wisdom part, potrayed in the Dragon character.

Newfish
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Post by Newfish » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:10 am

Innokentius wrote:Sinfest was just better at the beginning. Just because the author didn't take sides.
Saying (or doing) nothing is siding with existing power structures. There's no such thing as not taking sides.

Innokentius
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Post by Innokentius » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:18 am

Newfish wrote:
Innokentius wrote:Sinfest was just better at the beginning. Just because the author didn't take sides.
Saying (or doing) nothing is siding with existing power structures. There's no such thing as not taking sides.
Oh that "black-or-white" maximalism) Again, I don't blame anyone. People are not perfect. Each and every one of them. What puzzles me most is that earlier works of Tatsuya displayed much more mature approach to everything. Maybe he got scared by something? Traumatized? Thought he might be accused like James Gunn? Think we'll never know.

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:35 am

Innokentius wrote:Now he's a radical - and a radical is always narrow-minded.
Radical comes from "root", because radical feminism goes to the root of the problem and tries to tackle that. If you don't enjoy the comic anymore and want to complain about it there's a whole other forum for you to go to.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

Innokentius
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Post by Innokentius » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:56 am

Z6IIAB wrote:
Innokentius wrote:Now he's a radical - and a radical is always narrow-minded.
Radical comes from "root", because radical feminism goes to the root of the problem and tries to tackle that. If you don't enjoy the comic anymore and want to complain about it there's a whole other forum for you to go to.
Well... you're wrong) "Radical" and "root" have different etymology and absolutely opposite meanings) Radicals - any radicals - tend to destroy, not to solve problems. But deconstruction is only half of the way. You have to create something on the root of the thing. Radicals don't do that, cause it's way harder and is not instagrammable)))

And that's what I mean. Earlier Sinfest was fun and constructive. Nowadays - it's full of aggression and cheap conjuncture. And that's a pity.

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Post by FantasyLens » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:19 am

Innokentius wrote:Sinfest was just better at the beginning. Just because the author didn't take sides. Now he's a radical - and a radical is always narrow-minded. Can't blame him for that, but my opinion - the series have lost that wisdom part, potrayed in the Dragon character.
No one is objective, no one doesn't have a side. Humans have a tendency to see things we already agree with as more objective.
Should I lay with my head bowed down?
Exist in exits
But where, where can I exist?

You'll stare at me in a fantasy
Love me through the lens

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:50 am

Innokentius wrote:
Z6IIAB wrote:
Innokentius wrote:Now he's a radical - and a radical is always narrow-minded.
Radical comes from "root", because radical feminism goes to the root of the problem and tries to tackle that. If you don't enjoy the comic anymore and want to complain about it there's a whole other forum for you to go to.
Well... you're wrong) "Radical" and "root" have different etymology and absolutely opposite meanings) Radicals - any radicals - tend to destroy, not to solve problems. But deconstruction is only half of the way. You have to create something on the root of the thing. Radicals don't do that, cause it's way harder and is not instagrammable)))

And that's what I mean. Earlier Sinfest was fun and constructive. Nowadays - it's full of aggression and cheap conjuncture. And that's a pity.
No, I'm not wrong. You're just being difficult. Plus, radical feminists do have a plan for reconstructing society. the problem is that most men dislike it cause it means sex will no longer be for sale. And women will be treated as equals. You sound really lazy and aggressive.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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