Is there any way to bring back the light-heartedness?

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Ingun
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Post by Ingun » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:05 am

FantasyLens wrote:
Innokentius wrote:Sinfest was just better at the beginning. Just because the author didn't take sides. Now he's a radical - and a radical is always narrow-minded. Can't blame him for that, but my opinion - the series have lost that wisdom part, potrayed in the Dragon character.
No one is objective, no one doesn't have a side. Humans have a tendency to see things we already agree with as more objective.
Agreement. I think what plays into this, too, is that we often see the white male protagonist presented as the default, the standard, the neutral viewpoint. But there are no neutral views and no piece of art can be neutral, in its creation or how it is received. All art carries a message.

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FantasyLens
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Post by FantasyLens » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:16 am

Ingun wrote:I think what plays into this, too, is that we often see the white male protagonist presented as the default, the standard, the neutral viewpoint.
This.
Should I lay with my head bowed down?
Exist in exits
But where, where can I exist?

You'll stare at me in a fantasy
Love me through the lens

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Jenny
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Post by Jenny » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:44 am

I confess I'm kind of torn about this. I started reading Sinfest very early on as well, when I was in college (which I attended after serving in the Navy, so I was already older than most of my peers). So I remember the "good old days" of which the original poster writes, and yes; I often felt like there was some very funny stuff in those days.

On the other hand, I do think that the current direction is important. "All that is required for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing." And Tats is pointing out some of the nasty, infected parts of society; the place where the [s]firehose[/s] enema nozzle needs to be inserted to clean things out.

On the other, other hand, I feel like I haven't done any more than smile at a Sinfest in a long time, and I feel like I used to have serious laughs at least once a month. I think the message is carried best, is most likely to strike home, when it's carried with humor, instead of grimdarkness.

So I dunno. But whatever Tats decides to do, I'm along for the ride.

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FantasyLens
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Re: Is there any way to bring back the light-heartedness?

Post by FantasyLens » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:58 am

QuietReader wrote:My favourite characters in the comic are Criminy and Fuchsia.
I also really like the Criminy and Fuchsia characters and storyline, but I feel there isn't any point extending the plot line unless there is a really good character progression / development to describe. If the inspiration isn't landing right now, I'd rather they were left where they are than have Fuchsia episodes 'for the sake of it'. It may well be that (for now at least) they have played out, and we can leave them in a 'happy place'?
Should I lay with my head bowed down?
Exist in exits
But where, where can I exist?

You'll stare at me in a fantasy
Love me through the lens

Tanagra
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Post by Tanagra » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:25 am

Hello. I am new to the forum. On Facebook, someone posted about Sinfest. The post is friend-locked, but here are the contents, at least if there is space:

I didn't start reading this series when it was in its infancy, but did start reading before the complete upheaval that changed the entire feel of his stories. It was mostly light hilarity, but some of it is showing the kind of behavior that causes such difficulty between men and woman, and the other people. So right now I'm treading through the old comics, wondering if I'll recognize when I get to where I started reading. I just might... Sometimes the artist introduces kanji.

The cast of characters is impressively large and includes assorted Powers That Be, such as God, Buddha, a great Dragon. Satan is in it, constantly finding himself failing to do more than amuse God. A pair of cheerful angels who give out glitter to those who do selfless acts. The artist himself, whose purpose in life is to care for his dog and cat. The strip used to be about the friendship of Slick and Monique. While Monique has grown and become empowered, Slick is still stuttering through life, groping to rule himself, unaware of how utterly he is manipulated by forces outside of himself. It's just a weirdly deep series. http://www.sinfest.net/

So, going through looking for key points. Or things I like particularly. February19th and February 20th, 2003, he showed the war then the peace kanji. 戦争ã€￾平和I'm pretty sure Little E made his first appearance in the July 24th 2002 strip.March 10, 2004 Kanji for é­‚ Soul! I wonder if Mr. Ishida had already found the story going this way: http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-10-16

The deep question. Where is Little E's mother?! Second time we see the mother. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-04-08

Every Little E background comic is painfully serious. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-09-30 How those two met. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-09-22 When she took care of him. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-12-15 I'm up to July 5th,2004. It's hard to find specific events. Wait. There was no July 5th 2004 comic.Hm. So, in late 2005 a storyline wherein Slick and Monique started to move past the platonic insanity. But it was just a tease, muahah. Have reached June 26th,2007. Slick has moved into open pursuit of Monique. So far, no success for him.Things are still the same as this one: http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2004-10-02

The first mention of the Sisterhood as "real" http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2007-02-07. And the next time! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-10-03 The continuing story when he started showing us the underlying text. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-10-08 eh-heh!http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-10-17

I've reached the start of a storyline I'd forgotten! It's hard to say that this is the start, as such, but from the August 24th, 2007, Slick tries to change! In the September 2nd comic, the angels offer to protect him from Satan.September 16th, hahaha.

Oh, this was a charming one: http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2007-10-11 By October 16th, it appears that Slick is settling back to his normal self. *sigh*November 22nd gives us Jesus man and Buddha boy! It's charming! Ah. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2007-11-11 So many particularly good ones. I think January 5th 2008 was the first time he introduced Uncle Sam. January 16th, 2008 and he raised the issue of the vote in the U. S. Clinton VS Obama! I remember that. Right, I've reached May 25th, 2008.Time to rest a bit. Hahah.

Oh hey, I never saw this one: http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2008-08-03 So in this series, God does hand puppets. But this seems to be where Death is introduced,soon as its own character. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2008-08-05

Blue and Fuchsia have actually been showing up every so often. At least, I'm pretty sure it's them. This is the largest they got in the early stories: http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2008-08-17 Little E gets his Hellhound, which has only one head. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2008-08-18 And I believe the first mockery of Palin. Er, Piglin. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2008-09-06 And,oh my stars and garters! The first appearance of Obama! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2008-09-14 And the first appearance of the much loved Lady Liberty! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2008-09-25 Ah.The Halls of Justice. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2008-11-09

I think this was the first time he showed Death assassinating the Old Year. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2008-12-31 Death gets more scenes, pursuing one Old Year after another. Sometimes, though, it's the daily work we see. Or the yearly. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2010-09-05 Andthe time when the Old Year turned the tables! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-01-02

As far as I know, when Fuchsia first met Criminy: http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2009-01-07 When they um, exchanged books! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2009-03-29 Slick makes a determined effort to cause world peace, on order to win Monique. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2009-05-17

He finds his lost laptop in Hell. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2009-07-24 Slick and his laptop are rescued by Fuchsia's love-contaminated pitchfork! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2009-08-02 Early signs of the unfortunate deterioration of Uncle Sam and Lady Liberty's marriage.http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2009-08-19

Oh yes, I remember these days. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2010-03-28

Slick, fallen into Hell again, is rescued this time by his laptop. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2010-05-02

Fuchsia, back when she was still hiding her budding relationship from Satan!http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2010-07-11 Incidentally, Fuchsia had taken to reading happy fairy tales to the unfortunate denizens of the fiery pits of Hell. This leads to more developments later. Blue frequently tries to undo the damage Fuchsia does, as in this one: http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2010-08-08

And this: http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2010-08-22 I'd missed the part where the two children-Missionaries prove to be the two angels who fly around cheerfully giving glitter to people who do good deeds and, um, bedeviling the Devil. No wonder nothing gets them down. Every so often, Mr. Ishida does one of these: http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2010-07-20

And then he continued with "The Reality Zone"! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2010-07-22 Keep reading. I think I missed this one. Guest shots from Calvin & Hobbes, Charlie Brown & Snoopy, and the Simpsons! "Strange place, " says a suddenly adult-sized Slick, walking with Monique. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2010-10-10

I never really mentioned Slick's best buddy, Squigley, who is a pig. Onetime, Monique sends him off on adventures. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2010-08-29

And he learns! Guest shot from Obama! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2010-09-12 Squidly is wandering through various cartoon countries and comes upon Japan! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2010-10-31 Criminy, you are a good soul. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2010-09-16 *sniffle* http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2010-09-19 Just keep reading this sequence! Ah, Cupid. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-02-20

http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-07-20

Having re-read everything, I finally know what this refers to: http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-10-14 It's been a long time since the Dragon's spoken. He has a snarky sense of humor. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-03-06 Oh! Oh. . . http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-03-11 Is that who I think she is. . . ?

It IS! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-05-03

http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-05-08 I suppose this is how they first met, http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-05-09 when Little E was wandering around with his demonized bible. And they briefly meet again! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-07-11 And of course, when she learns a new term. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-08-09

Ah! I'd forgotten that the tree from which they see their town started here:http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-08-28

Ah, Little E. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-09-11 And where the Lethe comes in to change Little E's life... and we find out something he still doesn't know. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-09-23 Also, the first time I know of that we realize Satan's spying! Though the Illuminati pyramid has shown up, here and there. The start of a beautiful friendship! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-09-28

For Little E, the surreal experience of seeing a past he can't really remember. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-10-30

The day Seymour annoys the wrong people. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-04-03 And how he loses his devil horns... http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-04-24 Oh goodness! First appearance of The Lethe! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-04-27

Jumping ahead: Monique changes completely. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-11-01 Which goes along with Little E changing completely, though he had to lose his memory. The day Fuchsia decided she'd had enough! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-11-06 And the day we meet the nice little old lady with her own secrets. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-12-01

Arrival of Milton in the story. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2011-12-10

Arrival of the green girl? http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-01-08

First hints of trouble in Hell, as they miss Fuchsia. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-01-13 Keep reading, to see who comes out. And I believe I recognize her. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-01-18

Long time no see, Milton! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-05-18

I wasn't surprised to find an extensive protest to the way Mr. Yoshida is writing his stories, now. http://badwebcomicswiki.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Sinfest

Blue's childhood. Oddness. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-03-04

How Blue met Fuchsia. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-06-16 The Dragon is silent. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-03-11 Returning to the dragon. Boy, more than a year since that injury! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-05-12 But he's still silent. Still silent, but recovered from his injury! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-08-04

Finding no humor in being attacked by Spydrones, the dragon destroys the factory! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-11-17 Ah! When the spydrones, blessed by Buddha, become Butterfly Drones! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-03-14

The Sisterhood subplot kicks into gear! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-03-18 http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-05-06

When Fuchsia finds out she has a guardian of her own. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-03-25

When Fuchsia defies the Reality Zone's corrosive effect to paint a real tree.http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-10-21 Keep following... for it's the end of 2013. Ooh! This is where Slick's evil doppelganger came in! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-04-01 And started being active. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-04-15

When Slick, indulging in pron, loses empathy. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-06-17 And the hint of a new player. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-09-23 Slick gets his heart repaired, but locks it away to keep Cupid off, leaving him alone.http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-10-07

Slick wakes and discovers the world in the looking glass. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-12-02

And in comes that major player. For to become real is to be able to be your own agent. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-02-10

And to see what has happened to others, is to have a reason to take action. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-03-24

I'm getting caught up. When Milton sends out the inappropriately dressed assassin for the rogue fembot. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-10-20

When that assassinbot finds our girl. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-12-27

The year 2012, realizing how little time he has left, determines to go outwith a bang! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-11-08

He spend rather a lot of time with Little E and the girl. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-12-30 Lonely Little E, stolen into Hell, is rescued by his buddy. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-06-23

When our girl sees a touch of the past she does not remember. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-07-07

When it become to hard not to intervene. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-08-25

Our girl heads through the video game portal to Hell and finds a window on her past, we see her name was Angie. However, she loves tangerines, and renames herself "Tange". Monique rescues a little girl from being programmed!http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-01-20

Another line of battle, against the White Matrix. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-07-21

Slick is trying to change. When his mirror-side finds itself unable to get at his heart, it throws quite a tantrum. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-09-01

He finds that his heart's been locked up so long, it's frozen! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-09-23

And a fright leads to him fighting to get it out. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-11-15

It's getting better all the time! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2014-01-30

But Mirror-Slick accidentally leaves his glasses with fighting Slick. who discovers a new view of the world. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2014-02-23 What happened to Little E's mother?! http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-10-27 2013, feeling the end approaching. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-12-03

Little E runs across 2013, not realizing he's a different entity. http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-12-17

I'd forgotten. The Green devil girl is Absinthe. The Purple one is Sapphire.Well, I've made it up to this year, and the battle of good against evil that's taking place in-story now.

TinT
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Post by TinT » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:21 pm

Innokentius wrote:
Newfish wrote:
Innokentius wrote:Sinfest was just better at the beginning. Just because the author didn't take sides.
Saying (or doing) nothing is siding with existing power structures. There's no such thing as not taking sides.
Oh that "black-or-white" maximalism) Again, I don't blame anyone. People are not perfect. Each and every one of them. What puzzles me most is that earlier works of Tatsuya displayed much more mature approach to everything. Maybe he got scared by something? Traumatized? Thought he might be accused like James Gunn? Think we'll never know.
Yes, clearly the days of glorifying pimps, treating abuse of prostituted women as a joke, and stereotyping blacks and homosexuals was coming from a far more mature place than today's incarnation of Sinfest.

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:40 am

TinT wrote:
Innokentius wrote:
Newfish wrote:
Innokentius wrote:Sinfest was just better at the beginning. Just because the author didn't take sides.
Saying (or doing) nothing is siding with existing power structures. There's no such thing as not taking sides.
Oh that "black-or-white" maximalism) Again, I don't blame anyone. People are not perfect. Each and every one of them. What puzzles me most is that earlier works of Tatsuya displayed much more mature approach to everything. Maybe he got scared by something? Traumatized? Thought he might be accused like James Gunn? Think we'll never know.
Yes, clearly the days of glorifying pimps, treating abuse of prostituted women as a joke, and stereotyping blacks and homosexuals was coming from a far more mature place than today's incarnation of Sinfest.
I missed you, TinT.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

progan01
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Post by progan01 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:47 pm

Z6IIAB: Clean your finger before you point at my spots.
What is to give light must endure burning.

—-Viktor Frankl

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:50 pm

progan01 wrote:Z6IIAB: Clean your finger before you point at my spots.
I have no idea who you are or what is your purpose here. Other than maybe antagonize me in really convoluted ways? Yeah. Don't twist my words and don't put new ones on my mouth. You're not allowed to do so.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

msobkow
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I've been reading SinFest since the first year

Post by msobkow » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:10 pm

I've been reading SinFest since the first year it was out, and after a couple of strips, went back to the first episode and read on from there until I was caught up.

I think the characters and storyline and the world of SinFest have grown and matured nicely over the years, as has Tatsuya and everyone around me, myself included. There are many things I did in my youth that I certainly wouldn't do today, and many things that I take issue with nowadays that I didn't care about back then.

Personally I still see the humour in the strip just fine; it is just humour with an underlying theme and message nowadays, and I'm quite ok with that, especially given the prevalence of misogyny and abuse in the world.

The only thing that ever disappointed my is Slick never did get anywhere with Monique. He was SO infatuated with her early on, and I was really rooting for him to get with her once he grew up and matured, but her current relationship and lesbian lifestyle means that will never happen.

Mind you, the current approach to the characters is probably a lot more interesting than what could have been done down that path.

Keep on with your mission, Tatsuya. You rock, man! :D

msobkow
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By the way

Post by msobkow » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:21 pm

By the way, my favourite strips are the "flying high while glued to the couch" ones. I'm a wish-he'd-been-a-hippie toker from Canada, so those really resonate with me. :)

jdth
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Post by jdth » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:24 am

I grew up really protected (some would say naïve) and when I started reading sinfest back in... dunno, maybe 2006, I genually didn't know that "Pimp" meant more than a clothing style... That made the comic actually funny, because it was just ridiculous. And in my point of view was the story from the very start that Slick is a stupidhead and is slowly progressing towards a better version of himself. As the years went by, the world became more and more difficult, which makes being a good person more and more difficult, so even though Slick (and soon after a whole lot of other loveable and less loveable characters) kept improving, they never became angels. I also was so lucky to have sinfest change in the same tempo as I did. Often I just learned about some injustice, then sinfest would "soon after" make a comic about it.Thus, I actually never saw a breaking point in the comic. It's progressing. I have really problems with seeing "the old sinfest" and the "new sinfest", since it's just two parts of one journey together. Going back to the old jokes can't be done, as you can't become a child for a second time. If you want to relive the old jokes, reread the comic. (I certainly do that from time to time.) That's nostalgia. It's nice, but you don't progress with that. I for once am far more interested in where the story leads us to.

And of course in so many years, there are strips that made me furious, that insulted me, that made me laugh my donkey off and that inspired me. That's part of a good story!
Yello? I'd like a big cup o' change please? Anybody?

paradoctor
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I miss Sinfest

Post by paradoctor » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:26 am

I miss Sinfest. Remember the dragon? He told Slick to play Heaven and Hell off against each other. Anyone that sensible in the strip anymore?

Remember Slick? The trike girl is a female Slick, but less aware that she's sold out as much as Slick did.

Remember when the ATM morphed to a huge robot and shook Slick's wallet out? "Credibility restored", it said, and Slick said, "What, are you stupid? You just jacked me!"

Remember God trolling the characters? Remember Buddha? Remember the dog and the cat and the cartoonist? Sinfest had fun!

Now what do we have? Antiporn plus pro-feminism; though that combination exists nowhere on actual Earth. On the actual planet, societies that repress porn also repress women; and those that liberate women also liberate porn. Like it or not, that's how it is.

So I miss Sinfest. But it's inevitable; cartoonists eventually run out of ideas. Either the toon gets pickled, like "Nancy", or enters endless recycling, like "Peanuts", or shuts down, like "Calvin and Hobbes". The only path to toon endurance is if the cartoonist patrols some endlessly absurd sector of society, like "Doonesbury" with politics.

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Re: I miss Sinfest

Post by Z6IIAB » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:24 am

paradoctor wrote:Antiporn plus pro-feminism; though that combination exists nowhere on actual Earth.
Plus, saying that oppressing porn is oppressing women, and THAT goes hand-in-hand... yeah, you're gross for dismissing the research and the experience of thousands of women.

Anyways, the forum is not meant for conservatives like you. So... bye.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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Post by NoblestRomana » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:40 am

I have been reading this comic for years. I can't even remember for how ling since I mostly was a lurker. So I remember the old style of humor and the new one and I still get chuckles out of the comic.

It is just a different style of storytelling and humor. I enjoy the new comics for different reasons I enjoyed the older ones and if the comic changes to something else in tears to come, I will probably find something new in it to enjoy too. This comic has been one of the few constants as I have grown from an angsty teenager into an adult woman and I hope it will be around for many years to come.

It is a bit like Doctor Who. I have watched all 13 Doctors and enjoy each series for what they have to offer even if they are very different from one another. :D

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