PSA: Do Not Feed The Trolls

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October
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Post by October » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:11 am

Tat created this forum for, and I quote: "...people who like the message of my comic."

I think there are some curious, good-faith folks, probably who have been reading for a while, who come in and ask questions. They may not like the answers.

But those that are only showing up to spew the same old vitriol, stir up more pointless arguments, etc. when it is abundantly clear they're basically hate-reading at this point... that's trollish nonsense. It all goes back to Tat's clear intention for this forum.

If you don't like where Tat took the comic, don't read it. I have left other web comics when they went in directions that I disliked. Sometimes, it sucks. It's disappointing, especially when you follow it for years. But you are not entitled to a podium in which to declare your disappointment and flounce, or worse: sneer at, deride, or troll current fans.

I feel like Tat had to wade through little more on the old forum than raging former-enthusiasts who seemed to think the artist couldn't do what he wanted with his own damn comic.

His comic. His forum.
"Because as we all know... there is nothing stronger than a broken woman who has rebuilt herself!" -Hannah Gadsby

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Mama Immo
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Post by Mama Immo » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:07 pm

October wrote:I think there are some curious, good-faith folks, probably who have been reading for a while, who come in and ask questions. They may not like the answers.
It's hard to like the answers when the most common one is some variant on "Booooo! Troll! We're done talking to you!"

Like. Where is the respectful discourse in that? I see time and time again people trying to just support an idea that isn't 100% very specifically one exact way of thinking and getting ripped to shreds for the effort.

Try to phrase yourself as politely as possible? You're being condescending or sarcastic or worse. Word yourself assertively? You're an aggressive troll. There's no winning. It feels like the main rule is "Drink the kool-aid or get out"

So, as I said before, it really does seem like this forum just wants to be a vacuum chamber. Nod your head along with everything. Debates and discussions are for trolls, enablers, abusers, and worse.
"If you find yourself falling into madness... Dive."

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:11 pm

October wrote:Tat created this forum for, and I quote: "...people who like the message of my comic."

I think there are some curious, good-faith folks, probably who have been reading for a while, who come in and ask questions. They may not like the answers.

But those that are only showing up to spew the same old vitriol, stir up more pointless arguments, etc. when it is abundantly clear they're basically hate-reading at this point... that's trollish nonsense. It all goes back to Tat's clear intention for this forum.

If you don't like where Tat took the comic, don't read it. I have left other web comics when they went in directions that I disliked. Sometimes, it sucks. It's disappointing, especially when you follow it for years. But you are not entitled to a podium in which to declare your disappointment and flounce, or worse: sneer at, deride, or troll current fans.

I feel like Tat had to wade through little more on the old forum than raging former-enthusiasts who seemed to think the artist couldn't do what he wanted with his own damn comic.

His comic. His forum.
â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾â˜￾
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:28 pm

Ugh, Mama Immo, we don't own politeness to people that condone porn, prostitution and reality denial. Especially when they come here to "shame" us for asserting our opinions.

What's the point in a "debate" when we all know it's not gonna change anyone's opinion? They just come here to repeat what they already say in their eccho chambers. They are just upset they can't do it in the forum anymore. And tbh, if you had been around when there was only the old forum, I guess you'd be pretty impressed with the amount of useless discussions that happened there. And the amount of people actually drinking any metaphorical cool-aid.

This is not a forum to defend prostitution and porn. And this is a forum that welcomes radical feminism. That's it. Don't like it? Write it in your blog. There's the WHOLE fucking internet for that.

It's nice to have debates, and even then we can just bail out if we're tired. But pro-porn, pro-prostitution and anti-radfem people aren't welcome here in this forum.

I'm tired from random assholes coming here only to defend porn, prostitution or claim some orwellian "truth" about transwomen. Even if they aren't trolling and just wanna pretend they "have to say it" I'll call it out as trolling, since it's done nothing but rile people up.

It's not "drinking the cool-aid", it's simply not putting up with bullshit.

If you go to the forum you KNOW the history of this forum. You either came from tumblr because people are everyday compaining about Sinfest there or you used to be here and want to start a fight because you just can't leave people who enjoy the comic alone.

It's your choice. And it's our right to ignore, because it is trolling, whether intentional or not. Got to tumblr if you wanna debate with pro-porn, pro-prostitution and anti-radfem people. For real, it's crowling with those people there.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:30 pm

I think there is one person that wasn't genuinely a troll, like October pointed out. But all the others, if you check the sinfest tag on tumblr, you'll realize they just came here to bother people.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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Mama Immo
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Post by Mama Immo » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:47 pm

Z6IIAB wrote:Ugh, Mama Immo, we don't own politeness to people that condone porn, prostitution and reality denial. Especially when they come here to "shame" us for asserting our opinions.

What's the point in a "debate" when we all know it's not gonna change anyone's opinion? They just come here to repeat what they already say in their eccho chambers. They are just upset they can't do it in the forum anymore. And tbh, if you had been around when there was only the old forum, I guess you'd be pretty impressed with the amount of useless discussions that happened there. And the amount of people actually drinking any metaphorical cool-aid.

This is not a forum to defend prostitution and porn. And this is a forum that welcomes radical feminism. That's it. Don't like it? Write it in your blog. There's the WHOLE fucking internet for that.

It's nice to have debates, and even then we can just bail out if we're tired. But pro-porn, pro-prostitution and anti-radfem people aren't welcome here in this forum.

I'm tired from random assholes coming here only to defend porn, prostitution or claim some orwellian "truth" about transwomen. Even if they aren't trolling and just wanna pretend they "have to say it" I'll call it out as trolling, since it's done nothing but rile people up.

It's not "drinking the cool-aid", it's simply not putting up with bullshit.

If you go to the forum you KNOW the history of this forum. You either came from tumblr because people are everyday compaining about Sinfest there or you used to be here and want to start a fight because you just can't leave people who enjoy the comic alone.

It's your choice. And it's our right to ignore, because it is trolling, whether intentional or not. Got to tumblr if you wanna debate with pro-porn, pro-prostitution and anti-radfem people. For real, it's crowling with those people there.
I didn't come here to shame anyone, I didn't come here to promote porn or prostitution, and I didn't come here from tumblr.

I came here to discuss, to bounce ideas back and forth with a mindset that I might not entirely be on board with, but certainly want to understand.

I came here to put my views out there and discuss them with others and see what conclusions we all came to in the end.

Except the end of the discussion keeps coming up prematurely because I don't stop questioning fast enough apparently.

Hell, it was enough that I dared say "who are we to..." when I first started speaking on here at all. That got me the "You're an enabler, this discussion is done" treatment.

I'm sorry that I want to keep talking about things until they make sense to me. I'm sorry that I don't read one response and immediately change my mind to the exact precise interpretation of rad-fem/anti-porn/etc. that is acceptable to this forum. I'm sorry that I just thought a community that so staunchly displays it's message and beliefs would want to maybe talk it out with someone on the fence and make a positive difference.

I didn't realise being civil in response to someone who was never uncivil to you was such a difficult task.

Now I could say all this and take off in a huff and all that dramatic jazz, but what would that honestly fix? So no. This is not "and the horses you road in on" rant. It's just steam venting. I do actually want to learn more and understand more and turning away because one or two people bruised my feelings just serves no purpose.

Call me a troll if you want but I intend to hang around and actually talk to people like equals.
"If you find yourself falling into madness... Dive."

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:33 pm

This is NOT about you, Mama Immo, and people did continue to debate with you on that issue I brought up. I stopped because I'm tired and I'm not obligated to continue a discussion seeing you're unflexible; let's agree on disagree.

You're NOT the one I'm calling you a troll. To me, especifically to ME, you're a nnoying at best. But i don't think you're a troll and I think it's fine if you wanna keep here. No one is shutting you down.

I'm talking about the last few days incoming of people that cleary think the comic is "transphobic" because it doesn't agree with orwellian speak coming from TRAs. Get your shit straight.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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Mama Immo
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Post by Mama Immo » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:37 pm

Z6IIAB wrote:This is NOT about you, Mama Immo, and people did continue to debate with you on that issue I brought up. I stopped because I'm tired and I'm not obligated to continue a discussion seeing you're unflexible; let's agree on disagree.

You're NOT the one I'm calling you a troll. To me, especifically to ME, you're a nnoying at best. But i don't think you're a troll and I think it's fine if you wanna keep here. No one is shutting you down.

I'm talking about the last few days incoming of people that cleary think the comic is "transphobic" because it doesn't agree with orwellian speak coming from TRAs. Get your shit straight.
And I don't think those people are trolls either. Seriously. Why does someone having something critical to say get your hackles so far up? Maybe if you didn't come at every disagreement like a bare-knuckle alley fight you would be slightly less exhausted.
"If you find yourself falling into madness... Dive."

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:43 pm

ok, you cleary have no idea of the history of "discussions" here - much less in the old forum I presume - or the purpose of this forum. think what you want then, whatever. we are all grown-ups, we know who is trolling and who isn't. go ahead and you discuss with them if you think it's ok, if they break the 3 simple rules for this forum - harassing radfems, being pro-porn or pro-prostitution - they'll have their accounts a deactivated anyways lol. have fun!
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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Mama Immo
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Post by Mama Immo » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:49 pm

I've lurked on this forum since it existed so I'm not sure what history I'm missing but okay.

The fact stands that when somebody comes forward to dare and say "Hey... this sends a bad message re: trans folk..." they are immediately stomped on because of course they MUST be trolling to come here and state that maybe the comic has started punching down instead of up.
"If you find yourself falling into madness... Dive."

gyrfox
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Post by gyrfox » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:56 pm

Mama Immo wrote:I've lurked on this forum since it existed so I'm not sure what history I'm missing but okay.
Just this forum, or were you also a lurker on the original forum?

I was introduced to the terms "SWERF" and "TERF" when I lurked over there, back when Tats was starting to touch on anti-porn, and I was a bit unnerved by the constant vitriol. I eventually stopped going because after a point it felt like the forum existed to hate the comic and I didn't want to wade into something that toxic.

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:07 pm

Mama Immo wrote:I've lurked on this forum since it existed so I'm not sure what history I'm missing but okay.
Have you really? Then maybe you might need to check it again, your cognitive dissonance is fucking incredible. Other than that, have you lurked int he old forum? Or do you think this one is the only one that has ever existed?
Mama Immo wrote:The fact stands that when somebody comes forward to dare and say "Hey... this sends a bad message re: trans folk..." they are immediately stomped on because of course they MUST be trolling to come here and state that maybe the comic has started punching down instead of up.
lol, that's because they are wrong and trying to derail conversation? sorry you don't understand it, I really am.

Btw, there's nothing daring about what they're doing. There's nothing brave in repeating the same vitriolic mainstream bullshit and calling radfems "transphobes".

You know who is daring?

Tat for keeping this webcomic up despite people attacking the website and his work.

Radical feminists that help women to get out of the porn and prostitution industries.

Ex-porn actress and ex-prostitutes that come forward to speak the truth about what they lived.

Women that unapologetically state that women do NOT have penises and that surgeries and hormonization are harmful and do NOT help people with sex dysphoria in a huge part of the cases!

Those people are daring. Those people are brave.

The trolls that came here - and yes, they were trolls - didn't dare anything. They are just being annoying, much like you for refusing to understand this situation.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:23 pm

Tat has already said "My priority here in the opening days of this forum is to establish a community that takes a strong stance against the sexual exploitation industries. And to foster an environment that's friendly to radical feminists and people who support radical feminism."


So yes, if you're here to be a troll calling radfems transphobes, or claim that the webcomic is being "transphobic" because it states a fact that hormonization is harmful and that women don't have penises - which are affirmations that most radfems have and that our theory supports, and are also scientifically accurate as I mentioned in a topic I brought earlier and that you - mama Immo - acted upset because you think "feelings" are more important than reality - then yes, you really are in the wrong place and maybe you should leave.

You have the whole internet to have your circle-jerking vitriolic "debates", you don't need to bother the people for whom the forum were made - people who actually enjoy the message of the comic. And, as far as I can see, people who actually understand it, instead of condescendly distorcing it to fit their strawmen, like I'm tired of seeing in the #sinfest tumblr tags lol.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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Post by RikkiTikkiTavi » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:22 am

Having not been a member of the old forum and having joined this forum in order to learn more about the topics presented in Tat's presentation of it, I must say this has become an interesting journey.

I am not a novice at forums and have seen plenty of trolling. Never have I seen such succinct troll abatement as displayed here. I am not just talking about people being banned, but about the comments in response to the trolling. Very short and on point, very sharp and final. It really speaks to a mastery that must have been gained through long hours of practice. It must have been some hell-fest on the old forum...

Sometimes it takes me by surprise when a 'troll-slap' response is given. I think sometimes it might be an over-reaction, but since as I said I was not here for the 'war', such hypersensitivity is understandable. If the person is not a troll they might be rocked back a bit, but if they are tough enough they will come back with better communication.

I am learning so much... Thanks.

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:33 pm

RikkiTikkiTavi wrote:Having not been a member of the old forum and having joined this forum in order to learn more about the topics presented in Tat's presentation of it, I must say this has become an interesting journey.

I am not a novice at forums and have seen plenty of trolling. Never have I seen such succinct troll abatement as displayed here. I am not just talking about people being banned, but about the comments in response to the trolling. Very short and on point, very sharp and final. It really speaks to a mastery that must have been gained through long hours of practice. It must have been some hell-fest on the old forum...

Sometimes it takes me by surprise when a 'troll-slap' response is given. I think sometimes it might be an over-reaction, but since as I said I was not here for the 'war', such hypersensitivity is understandable. If the person is not a troll they might be rocked back a bit, but if they are tough enough they will come back with better communication.

I am learning so much... Thanks.
you're welcome buddy, and yes, we have experience with trolling and people derailing conversations. we have experience with "well-intentioned" but throughtly ignorant people. and not only because of the previous forum, where radfems in fact would be considered the trolls, but internet wide experience. and in real life experience.

I'm glad to see you get it.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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