How the T (and the rest of the alphabet) joined the LGB

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Zhathil
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Ireland

How the T (and the rest of the alphabet) joined the LGB

Post by Zhathil » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:54 am

I've seen some TRAs come in here and try to cite old school Radical Feminists for supporting transgenderism, but the truth of the matter is they didn't see Trans identifying people the way we are today. Historically they were effeminate gay men who opted to live their lives as women because society found that more palatable than homosexuality. In that regard it made sense for them to join us, and hell, to even share in some women's spaces to a point because they were correct. Most Trans Identified Men killed today are still effeminate gay men working as prostitutes, and the rest of the movement co-opts this murder rate as though the straight white men in it are really in any danger. (Spoiler: They aren't.) You can take a look at hyper-conservative countries that allow men to live as woman, but will execute homosexuals. In fact, more countries allow men to transition into women and be recognised as such, than recognise gay marriage.

Today, it's far less about same sex attraction and more about somehow 'feeling' like a woman, which is in itself so misogynistic that I still can't understand how it hijacked the feminist movement so successfully. Most TRAs these days are heterosexual, but identify as lesbian and have manufactured the cotton ceiling, as though we lesbians are something to be conquered and claimed. The ultimate in validation.

With the rapid shift to identity, rather than same sex attraction, a lot of others suddenly were joining in. Suddenly lesbians were being pushed out of their own space by kinksters. Straight people were claiming the slur queer, saying that they were reclaiming it, and demanding new pronouns despite living exactly as a heterosexual. Even Trans Identified Females get the short end of the stick, often left out of any conversations regarding trans rights, because ultimately TRA is a MRA movement in gaudy make up and a wig.

I'd like to have a discussion with other RadFems about what we can do to help carve out a space for lesbians again. I don't want to end up doxxing myself here, but the city I live at in Ireland, the last lesbian gathering was slowly overwhelmed by men in dresses that post complaining that all the AFAB women left and they have no one to try to date. If you try to make a public call of any sort to have a true lesbian gathering and make it clear men aren't welcome, you're quickly no-platformed and harassed. I'm also happy to hear from Bi and Straight RadFems too about their feelings on the matter, as all of this nonsense still is a negative influence in their lives too.
Not the nice kind of feminist.

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RikkiTikkiTavi
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Re: How the T (and the rest of the alphabet) joined the LGB

Post by RikkiTikkiTavi » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:38 am

To hear that how the trans-movement has focused on corrupting the lesbian culture is very unsettling.

I am not lesbian, but I am very non-conforming woman. I am independent, physically active, run my own business and speak my mind. Plenty of people just assume I am a lesbian, which is fine. They can imagine me any way they like. (it cracks me up remembering how much a female business partner I used to have went to great lengths to try and make sure people did not think of us as 'partners' in a love interest kind of way... I took to frequently asking her if she felt something we would be doing would make it look enough like we were 'all about the penis' kind of gals...)

'Back in the day' (early 80s) I used to love to go to the lesbian bars and dance with my girlfriend. There was one in the city I live in now and it was a happy place. My girlfriend and I could dance the night away and no dudes would hit on us and we felt safe. Sure, some women might ask us to dance, but that was great fun and didn't feel tainted with overt sexual overtones.

To think that such a place might not be able to exist because some swinging dick in a dress wants to hook up with a lesbian is a horror.

Other than establishing exclusive clubs and keeping a bouncer at a locked door I don't know what would work in a brick and mortar sense. I have witnessed here how the mob has swarmed into this radfem virtual space. Thank you Tat for moderating.

In a small college town back in the early 80s there was a lesbian bar that was the 'secret' door that you had to knock at and a woman would open a door and decide if you could come in. That was small town common sense at a time when homosexuality was not 'approved'. Have we circled back to that?

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Zhathil
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Location: Ireland

Re: How the T (and the rest of the alphabet) joined the LGB

Post by Zhathil » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:20 am

RikkiTikkiTavi wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:38 am
To hear that how the trans-movement has focused on corrupting the lesbian culture is very unsettling.

I am not lesbian, but I am very non-conforming woman. I am independent, physically active, run my own business and speak my mind. Plenty of people just assume I am a lesbian, which is fine. They can imagine me any way they like. (it cracks me up remembering how much a female business partner I used to have went to great lengths to try and make sure people did not think of us as 'partners' in a love interest kind of way... I took to frequently asking her if she felt something we would be doing would make it look enough like we were 'all about the penis' kind of gals...)

'Back in the day' (early 80s) I used to love to go to the lesbian bars and dance with my girlfriend. There was one in the city I live in now and it was a happy place. My girlfriend and I could dance the night away and no dudes would hit on us and we felt safe. Sure, some women might ask us to dance, but that was great fun and didn't feel tainted with overt sexual overtones.

To think that such a place might not be able to exist because some swinging dick in a dress wants to hook up with a lesbian is a horror.

Other than establishing exclusive clubs and keeping a bouncer at a locked door I don't know what would work in a brick and mortar sense. I have witnessed here how the mob has swarmed into this radfem virtual space. Thank you Tat for moderating.

In a small college town back in the early 80s there was a lesbian bar that was the 'secret' door that you had to knock at and a woman would open a door and decide if you could come in. That was small town common sense at a time when homosexuality was not 'approved'. Have we circled back to that?
Like you mentioned in another thread, thankfully we grew up in another time. I was born in the late eighties and I feel like my peers are the last ones that got to just be kids. We grew up in baggy t-shirts and ground hitting jeans, being told that it was okay to be a tomboy. Not that some men in my life didn't frown upon it, especially when I came out as lesbian, but I see young lesbians really struggling today with a whole new breed of monster. Despite the fact I'm femme, I still get asked if I'm trans identifying because I don't wear make up and would rather be on a hike with my dog than anything else in the world.

I actually really appreciated straight women coming into lesbian bars and making it feel more of a woman's space. Not only did they keep the place feeling a little more alive, I knew a lot were also grappling with their sexuality and if they came out at the end saying 'I'm definitely straight.' I'd rather that come from a place of certainty and acceptance than feeling like they had to be because society. Not to mention how hard it is to get a night out without getting harassed as a woman. Now you've got men showing up, sometimes not even claiming to be trans, but to hit on the bi women and legally the place can't be women only. But even the bi women are usually seeking other women, and the men hit on everyone so women get uncomfortable and stop showing up.

It feels like we have to work doubly as hard to get anything woman centric to begin with, and now it's all being taken away but under supposedly left-wing politics.Trans Identified Females rarely try to claim male places, and when they do it's all over the news like some audacity, showing up as a man bites dog sort of situation with plenty of the same people who support Trans Identified Males taking over women spaces suddenly aghast at the audacity of forcing their way into gay male spaces. As Tatsuya has pointed out in comics, this is the same misogyny but with a new label.

I want to try to start a female born only group here, but the blowback won't affect just me. I'm not initially from Ireland so I don't have a lot of family here, but I have a lot of people in my life that while they support my views, are in positions that could be compromised if they're seen being friendly with a dirty 'TERF!' Not to mention the anti-prostitution part of Radical Feminism gets just as many straight men angry. There was a recent, horrible rape-murder case here and the vast violent and even child pornographic collection of the murderer wasn't admitted into evidence as it was considered inconsequential and something all boys would have on their phones.

I don't mean to sound so grim or ranting, it's just that lesbians have always had a struggle on both sides and now it's only amplified. I hope that something breaks, and I am glad to see more allies that are starting to see how bad it is too. I think there's going to be a lost generation of young lesbians and GNC women, that bought into the trans nonsense.
Not the nice kind of feminist.

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