So, what should I expect?

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Razlynne
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So, what should I expect?

Post by Razlynne » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:58 am

I figure why not get started with a live grenade. If this is going to go badly it's better for all if I know earlier than later. :)

I'm a trans-woman. With the bent towards Radical Feminism, which I generally support, what can I expect community wise?
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Tatsuya Ishida
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Post by Tatsuya Ishida » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:12 pm

So you recognize the sex industry is inherently misogynistic and harmful and support the Nordic/abolitionist model?

Please explain in what way you "generally support" radical feminism.

TheMightyHeracross
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Post by TheMightyHeracross » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:39 pm

As someone who absolutely agrees with radfems on the topic of the sex industry (anti-porn, Nordic model), I am also curious about the comic/community's official stance on transgender issues.

Razlynne
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Post by Razlynne » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:51 pm

Tatsuya Ishida wrote:So you recognize the sex industry is inherently misogynistic and harmful and support the Nordic/abolitionist model?

Please explain in what way you "generally support" radical feminism.
Radical Feminism generally includes feminists who think I'm not allowed to exist and that trans-women aren't women. The only thing i take exception to is the erasure of my existence like that. I'm otherwise completely down with it exactly as you outlined.
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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:59 pm

Feminism doesn't center homossexual males, or black males, or poor males, why should it center transgender males?
It's not about YOU
It's about destroying the sex hierarchy that made our lives as female human beings a living hell
We should NOT be punished for being born female, we should NOT think LESS about ourselves for being females!
That's what I think and basically why radical feminism speaks to me
and honestly, I'm pretty sure that's why it speaks to most women, especially the ones that are on the shorter end of our patriarcal society:
the poor ones, the black, indigenous, "of color" ones, the homossexual ones
the ones with dysphoria (that call themselves trans men)
Feminism is our social movement
It's to elevate us to the same social, economical, political and cultural step as males
We should fight to be seen as humans
Not as dolls, or baby makers, or sex slaves
We are not only females, we are female human beings
We are human beings!
And that should mean something more than some male ego upset there's a movement that ain't centering MALES
You get what I mean? Cause I'm NOT repeating myself. Go to the old forum if you want to be pandered to.
In here, we focus on female human beings and on how are we gonna destroy the sex hierarchy.
This ain't about YOU.
Don't be selfish.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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Post by Inganni » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:38 pm

But isn't that sort of view equating us with our genitals? I am more than my breasts or vaj. It's like when I defend my queer side, homosexuality isn't a choice, neither is transgenderism.

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Post by Razlynne » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:13 pm

Yes. It's about feminism. It's about women and men and the hierarchy of BS power displays in all their forms that put people down. What I'm asking is if this is a safe space for a trans-woman. Radical Feminism has a distinct vein of Trans-phobic sentiment targeted at people like me.

You're right, it's not about me, and I'm also not going to participate in a community in a 2nd class fashion nor allow myself to be savaged, erased, or otherwise verbally assaulted for existing.

Given that this is a new space from one of my most beloved creators I want to sort out this now before I become invested.
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Tatsuya Ishida
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Post by Tatsuya Ishida » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:12 pm

Razlynne wrote:Yes. It's about feminism. It's about women and men and the hierarchy of BS power displays in all their forms that put people down. What I'm asking is if this is a safe space for a trans-woman. Radical Feminism has a distinct vein of Trans-phobic sentiment targeted at people like me.

You're right, it's not about me, and I'm also not going to participate in a community in a 2nd class fashion nor allow myself to be savaged, erased, or otherwise verbally assaulted for existing.

Given that this is a new space from one of my most beloved creators I want to sort out this now before I become invested.
No one here has treated you like a second class citizen, no one has savaged you, or erased you, or verbally assaulted you for existing.

Please stop this inflammatory rhetoric. This is precisely the kind of rhetoric that chased away radical feminists from the old forum. I won't tolerate it here.

You have entered a space clearly marked for radical feminists, for anti-pornography, anti-prostitution viewpoints, and you've done nothing so far to help foster these values. You claim to support radical feminism, but you haven't actually shown any support for it. You have shown support for someone who doesn't support radical feminism.

I am going to ask you, and Inganni, to go join the other forum. They are much more amenable to your priorities.

Thank you.

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Post by Inganni » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:36 pm

Tatsuya Ishida wrote:
Razlynne wrote:Yes. It's about feminism. It's about women and men and the hierarchy of BS power displays in all their forms that put people down. What I'm asking is if this is a safe space for a trans-woman. Radical Feminism has a distinct vein of Trans-phobic sentiment targeted at people like me.

You're right, it's not about me, and I'm also not going to participate in a community in a 2nd class fashion nor allow myself to be savaged, erased, or otherwise verbally assaulted for existing.

Given that this is a new space from one of my most beloved creators I want to sort out this now before I become invested.
No one here has treated you like a second class citizen, no one has savaged you, or erased you, or verbally assaulted you for existing.

Please stop this inflammatory rhetoric. This is precisely the kind of rhetoric that chased away radical feminists from the old forum. I won't tolerate it here.

You have entered a space clearly marked for radical feminists, for anti-pornography, anti-prostitution viewpoints, and you've done nothing so far to help foster these values. You claim to support radical feminism, but you haven't actually shown any support for it. You have shown support for someone who doesn't support radical feminism.

I am going to ask you, and Inganni, to go join the other forum. They are much more amenable to your priorities.

Thank you.
They have quite clearly said they support the swerf attitude shown here. And X was immediately hostile. If you're going to say this forum is anti-pornography and anti-prostitution then you should also add trans-exclusionary, shouldn't you? That's another viewpoint you're promoting.

To add, I am a cis woman. Should you, a cis male, truly be telling any woman that their version of feminism is wrong?

Aside from that I asked a legit question. I have not been inflammatory or hateful. If you truly wish to silence anything that isn't 100% support of you then perhaps ban those that disagree?

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Post by Razlynne » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:12 am

You have entered a space clearly marked for radical feminists, for anti-pornography, anti-prostitution viewpoints, and you've done nothing so far to help foster these values. You claim to support radical feminism, but you haven't actually shown any support for it.


Apologies. This is not my intention. Radical Feminism includes viewpoints that deliberately seek to exclude. Dysphoria is like a paper cut on the soul and what I am seeking to understand is if your intention is to include those viewpoints which inflict actual enduring harm on me. I'm trying to understand this up front so that i can do exactly as you've suggested and walk away if your intention is to be permissive to those attitudes. I'm not even going to be angry about it. I'm just asking so I can ensure that I don't get hurt by virtue of being here.

I love that you've created this space. I love that you're doing this. I love the work you've taken to doing with Sinfest. I will not crap on your space and I'll go back to just avidly reading your work. It's all good man.
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Post by TheMightyHeracross » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:43 am

Tat, you said this forum is for people who want to learn about radical feminism. So, I want to know the answer to the original question, which you have not answered: are transgender (and nonbinary) people valid on this forum?

I discovered this comic a year ago, binged it, loved it. I was very pleased that turned around and used it as a platform for radical feminism, especially in the face of opposition from the fans of your previous, not very politically correct work, and again I agree with the comic's anti-porn and anti-sex stance, which it helped me form.

However, I have not seen an explicit stance taken on transgender issues. You criticized the "gender binary" and acknowledged the terms "transgender" "genderqueer" and "cisgender" in the "Hey Girl" comic, so I assumed you did support transgender people. However, you haven't taken a stance on the blatant transphobia from some members from both forums.

So all I want, from YOU, specifically is a simple answer, nothing else: are transgender people valid here?

I undestand that you don't want non-radfems on this forum. So if I must leave because I support transgender people, so be it.

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Post by October » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:45 am

I don't know why this is so difficult for people to accept. :(
I'm launching a new forum for people who like the message of my comic. The new forum will be anti-pornography, anti-prostitution. It will favor the radical feminist perspective over a liberal or conservative one. So if you'd like to participate in a forum environment more in harmony with the comic, I invite you to join.
You have entered a space clearly marked for radical feminists, for anti-pornography, anti-prostitution viewpoints...
A forum for those of us who appreciate the message of his comic, and want to be able to speak from radical feminist perspectives and not be attacked. There are hundreds of pages of threads about feminism, etc. in the other forum.

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Post by TheMightyHeracross » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:03 am

I have appreciated the message of his comic thus far, as I have stated a couple times already. I do agree with the anti-porn, anti-sex, pro-Nordic model sentiment that he is promoting on this new forum. Therefore, I do not disagree with any officially established viewpoints of the forum, to my knowledge. I am not being hostile.

Tat has not explicitly stated anything about transgender issues yet, hence the clarifying question. I am not asking anything in bad faith- again, if I learn that one of my beliefs is, in fact, against the values of the forum, specifically regarding transgender people in this case, I will leave. But I don't have a clear answer yet. Again, he has acknowledged trans issues in previous comics but even if they were after the comic's shift to a feminist viewpoint they are still quite old (2011 or 2012-ish) and we all know how drastically his views have changed over the years so far, so I need clarification.

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Post by Z6IIAB » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:11 pm

Inganni wrote:But isn't that sort of view equating us with our genitals? I am more than my breasts or vaj.
Z6IIAB wrote: We are not only females, we are female human beings
We are human beings!
Your question was already answered.
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough. So no, Saying a woman is a female human being is not reducing her to her sex.

If I say you have to have been born with 2 eyes, 1 nose and 1 mouth to be human, that doesn't means I'm equating being human to a walking pair of facial features.
Or that just because there are people that, for many reasons, don't have those characteristics or that are blind, or born with some kind of genetic malformation [like the kid from the movie "Wonder"(2017)] that they aren't human! Of course there are nuances and exceptions.

But the pattern we observed, are that humans do come with those features. That women are female human beings - even the ones that are post-menopausal, or are intersex, or have their uterus or brest tissue removed, etc. It's just a way of pointing out the sexual dichotomy we have in our human species.

Many other animals have a similar sexual dichotomy. It's a thing amongst many living creatures.

Evolution "brought" to life species that would have two specific kind of cells called gametes - ovules or spermatozoids - that, throught a much bigger reproductive system build for one or another (at least in the human species it's exclusive), would find each other on the female body to fuse into a zygote and be nourished by that body while developing into a new individual life form of that species, that, unlike it's female or male parent, would have new different characteristics that could help it survive and reproduce better in a relatively rapid changing environment.

That's what I can summarize to you about why we only have two sexes in most species and why is sexual reproduction important for survival, as a biologist that spent 10 years of her life at university studying biological sciences.

The feminist analysis of our oppresion is best comprehended and better serves our fight - in delimitating the priorities and rights we should fight for: abortion rights, better health treatments and diagnoses, non-violent obstetrics, cheaper menstruation products, the end of male violence and feminicide, erradicating rape, prostitution and the pornographic industry, etc - when we set aside sexist roles and stereotypes associated and imposed on women and look only to our biological characteristics that group us as a class and, yes, they would be still the same even if there wasn't a sex hierarchy.

Of course we are more than our genitals, than our sexual chromossomes, than our reproductive system. Than our ability to give birth or have PIV (penis-in-vagina) sex with males. We are a WHOLE human being, but all those parts matter. They make us different than men. NOT WORSE. Not better. But different, so we have different needs and demands.

And that shouldn't be set aside, perverted or hierarchized!

That's the whole point of feminism. To organize our fight, we need to understand what really means to be a woman. It's not a feeling. It's not a bunch of sexist roles and stereotypes imposed on us that we calll "femininity". It's not being sexually attracted to men.

It's a biological reality, and that DOES affect us! Patriarchy or not! Or what, do you think menstruating or not menstruating doesn't make any difference in your life? Or being the one who actually carries out a pregnancy in an heterossexual couple? Or being able to get impregnated after a rape? I dont think I need to cite the many diseases and disorders that do vary with sex in symptoms and treatment, do I?

And we should fight for a world were we are not reduced to those sexual characteristics nor overlooked like they don't make a difference, and especially NOT treated as second class citiziens, as unmen. Women should fight for a world where being a female human being is not a burden, but just another way of being a human. Everywhere, not just on USA.

I hope I could make my point more evident this time. If you still have questions, please ask. But please, try to understand what I meant this time. Thank you.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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RE: TERFS

Post by darynluna » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:26 am

There's nothing radical or feminist about trans erasure. Being a TERF is just conservatism and ignorance in disguise.

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