Surrogacy 42 (plus some questions)

Talk about the comic
Post Reply
SaintFeast
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:15 pm

Surrogacy 42 (plus some questions)

Post by SaintFeast » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:19 pm

Throughout this storyline, I've been confused about a few things, maybe someone here can help clear them up:

1) Why is ZombieMaiden a Johnbie? When they were first introduced it was stated that they were "infected with a malignant strain of male entitlement". However, it's been made clear that ZM doesn't like their work and even actively works to go against it (intentionally or unintentionally). The main male characters in the comic prove that the men can be things other than Johnbies or DevilMen, so what's going on? Did the transition get screwed up leaving ZM half-and-half?

2) Why was Milton scared by Xanthe broadcasting AutoPimp to the world? I know the comic is meant to be one giant metaphor for real life, but in-universe I can't see how any of the Bomb-District's atrocities could remain a secret. I always assumed the world was accustomed to it and didn't care, or actively supported what was going on there. It's kind of hard to hide multiple giant robots flying around with Sam-bot.

3) This question is new to this comic: Why didn't Xanthe offer to help ZM escape the Bomf District to the reality zone? There's an Underground Railroad established, and if her last escapades are any indication it'd be of little effort on her part as well as the rest of the sisterhood. For that matter, why don't they don't do that for everybody? Despite the fact that in the patriarchy's eyes they're basically domestic terrorist SWERF/TERFs on tricycles, they can still go on their missions without fail.

4) I'm confused as to why Tatsuya doesn't like Surrogacy. Perhaps I'm missing something, but from what I know about it all the women who participate in it do so voluntarily to help those who can't have kids of their own. How does it oppress them?

Maybe all this was explained in an earlier comic or it will be explained soon, but these are just a few of my many questions. Thank you in advance for any help given!
Attachments
ezgif-2-b58879df3ecd.jpg
ezgif-2-b58879df3ecd.jpg (222.49 KiB) Viewed 623 times

AesopBook
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:23 am

Re: Surrogacy 42 (plus some questions)

Post by AesopBook » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:32 pm

Hey there,

Here's a few thoughts. Naturally it's all speculation.

1) So far, all the handmaids have been pretty/handsome, and all the johnbies have been ugly and gross. This could lead to the incorrect view that beauty is always good, and ugly always bad. I assumed ZM's natural look was a nod to the fact that a person's looks shouldn't dictate our sympathy for them.

"Ugly people are people too."

2) My take here is that one key lie of the Pimps is that no Hand Maiden is forced to work in the Bomf district. It allows the johnbies to use them without that pesky moral centre getting in the way.

The image of the AutoPimp carrying a young woman away appears to reveal that lie for what it is, whether "The Wall" is really bomf work or not, so it could turn public opinion against them.

Plus, Milton's not exactly level-headed at the best of times, so perhaps he's just easily rattled.

3) A need for a fifth column, perhaps? As for all the Handmaidens, one reason could be Tat's need to make commentary on real life. If all the Handmaidens escaped and lived happily ever after, there wouldn't be a bomf district, and Tat couldn't use it to parody real life.

Also, so far the girls have faced toys and gadgets. If they proved to be a real, credible threat to the *devil*, their trikes and poles would be swept aside. They need to remain below the radar enough to not draw his attention, and harmless enough to keep the public's sympathy, so the devil can't just wipe em out without losing major PR points.

4) My assumption there is that sometimes surrogacy work is like bomf work. Homeless, desperate young people preyed upon by evil people that want to use their bodies for the benefit of anyone that can pay. Can't risk em running off with the merchandise, so the same rules of manipulation or even captivity may apply.

Battery-style breeding farms, but for people.

I'd say the villain's hit a new low, but then again the villain is the devil, so it's kinda par for the course with him.

- AesopBook
Last edited by AesopBook on Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AesopBook
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:23 am

Re: Surrogacy 42 (plus some questions)

Post by AesopBook » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:36 pm

P.S. Another thought on ZombieMaiden.

She hates being a Hand Maiden, but perhaps her appearance is a sign that, deep down, she feels the same sense of entitlement that johnbies do. She's just powerless and broke, so she can't indulge it yet.

"Women can be johnbies too." - Perhaps?

SaintFeast
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:15 pm

Re: Surrogacy 42 (plus some questions)

Post by SaintFeast » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:35 pm

What evidence is there that she feels the sense of entitlement and is just "hiding her power level"? Every time we see her it's either her being helped by the Sisterhood (kind words, muffins, scaring off pimpbot), oppressed by the patriarchy (obvious), or (unintentionally) pissing one of the drones off. Where have we seen that, if given the chance, she'd act just like the normal Johnbies?

Also, thank you for answering my questions. I might do this again for more comics, I have many more questions but I didn't want my post to be a mile long with stuff unrelated to the storyline. Do you think it'd be weird/annoying if I started doing that instead of just Celina?

EDIT: Just remembered the first comic that made me think they'd be a more credible threat: https://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2012-01-29

User avatar
Foxgloves
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:13 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Surrogacy 42 (plus some questions)

Post by Foxgloves » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:29 am

For anyone interested in the reality of surrogacy: It has incredibly strong parallels to prostitution.

This book is a fantastic introduction to prostitution & surrogacy, and how both are built on the backs of overwhelmingly poor women, who risk their health in the process to make (usually complete strangers!) sexually satisified or able to have genetic offspring:
https://www.amazon.com/Being-Bought-Pro ... 1742198767

It challenges the idea that anyone has the right to sex and the right to their own genetic children. Everyone has a right to their own sexuality and freedom to choose their partners, and everyone has a right to the protection of their own fertility and can use fertility treatments if they wish to take the risks those entail to have their own genetic children. But both the prostitution and the surrogacy industry institutionalize the right to sex/offspring while other people take the risks and pay the price, if there are adverse effects on their health. Women have died in prostitution and women have died in the surrogacy industry. Prostitution is in practice often akin to signing away (at least temporarily) decision over one's own body to the john (at least to what practices where previously agreed to) and in surrogacy she signs a contract where reproductive decisions most commonly lie with the genetic parents - not with her. This means they get to decide things like: Abortion - yes/no, selective abortion (reduction of fetuses) - yes/no, natural birth or c-section, another round of fertility treatment if the first/second/third one didn't work, etc.

More critiques of surrogacy to be found right here in podcast form: https://filia.org.uk/podcasts/2019/11/8 ... rence-2019

Just like with prostitution - some exceptions exist - but as an institution this is the commodification of female bodies and poor women, esp. women of colour pay the price - and mostly men and ethnic majority people benefit. That's why radical feminists oppose it, because its about women as a group and not individuals who can make the relative best of an otherwise exploitative system (unpaid altruistic surrogates have similar medical health risks, some have died from complications - just as a woman who choose prostitution without violent/economic/psychological coercion is still at risk of transmitted diseases or potentially violence).

User avatar
Tatsuya Ishida
Site Admin
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:12 pm
Location: United States

Re: Surrogacy 42 (plus some questions)

Post by Tatsuya Ishida » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:13 pm

<applause> Thanks, Foxgloves.

Excellent book by Ekman, lots of great research and insights. Especially the historically changing justifications for prostitution.

AesopBook
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:23 am

Re: Surrogacy 42 (plus some questions)

Post by AesopBook » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:42 pm

SaintFeast wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:35 pm
... Where have we seen that, if given the chance, she'd act just like the normal Johnbies?...
Just her appearance, really. Assuming the reason for her zombie face isn't "ugly people matter too", my second guess was that she's a female johnbie, just powerless.

The comic's an interesting ride, always unafraid to challenge assumptions, and it seemed reasonable for the next mis-assumption to be "Hand Maidens are always good people". Once freed, a Hand Maiden gains freedom of choice.

"It has been my observation that one of the prices of giving people freedom of choice is that sometimes they make the wrong choice." - Odo

P.S. You're welcome re the answers. I'm new tho, so I don't know Celina.

SaintFeast
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:15 pm

Re: Surrogacy 42 (plus some questions)

Post by SaintFeast » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:23 pm

Celina is X6IIAB, the main poster on this forum and arguably Tatsuya's biggest fan. I've been a lurker for awhile but only made the account recently, so I didn't know if me re-posting comics plus Q&As would break some dynamic.

User avatar
Z6IIAB
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:21 am
Location: Rogue

Re: Surrogacy 42 (plus some questions)

Post by Z6IIAB » Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:27 pm

SaintFeast wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:23 pm
Celina is X6IIAB, the main poster on this forum and arguably Tatsuya's biggest fan. I've been a lurker for awhile but only made the account recently, so I didn't know if me re-posting comics plus Q&As would break some dynamic.
arguably indeed, we don't know all his fans. i'm just one of the oldest who still appreciate and agree with his work. also anyone is free to post anything you know? i just happen to post most of it.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

Post Reply